Egan-Jones Downgrades U.S. Debt

[clarkatticus]

More class warfare.

Yeah, and they started it

 

[clarkatticus]

Therein lies the conflict, how much is too much, what is fair to all? The current tax code relies on income tax, not a consumption tax which would be fairer. The wealthy can pay more so they should, the middle class cannot-that is the reasoning. Some believe the wealthy became such not at the expense of the middle class but only with the collusion of the middle class. Without the middle class the wealthy could not sustain their financial position, without the American middle class and it's buying power the world would go into a depression (as we have seen) Until both side combine to revamp the tax code this is where we are at, cutting more will damage the balance and cause more unemployment and the resulting loss if revenue. It's time for the wealthy to step up.

 

[Openmind]

Therein lies the conflict, how much is too much, what is fair to all? The current tax code relies on income tax, not a consumption tax which would be fairer. The wealthy can pay more so they should, the middle class cannot-that is the reasoning. Some believe the wealthy became such not at the expense of the middle class but only with the collusion of the middle class. Without the middle class the wealthy could not sustain their financial position, without the American middle class and it's buying power the world would go into a depression (as we have seen) Until both side combine to revamp the tax code this is where we are at, cutting more will damage the balance and cause more unemployment and the resulting loss if revenue. It's time for the wealthy to step up.

The voice of reason again!

 

[pocketfullofshells]

More class warfare.

What do you call going after Unions...

call it class warfare all you want...so be it...its about time the poor started fighting back.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Therein lies the conflict, how much is too much, what is fair to all? The current tax code relies on income tax, not a consumption tax which would be fairer. The wealthy can pay more so they should, the middle class cannot-that is the reasoning. Some believe the wealthy became such not at the expense of the middle class but only with the collusion of the middle class. Without the middle class the wealthy could not sustain their financial position, without the American middle class and it's buying power the world would go into a depression (as we have seen) Until both side combine to revamp the tax code this is where we are at, cutting more will damage the balance and cause more unemployment and the resulting loss if revenue. It's time for the wealthy to step up.

A sales tax would actually be a Regressive tax with the poorest paying the highest percent of there income in taxes...I don't know how thats Fair.

 

[Openmind]

What do you call going after Unions...

call it class warfare all you want...so be it...its about time the poor started fighting back.

Applause!

 

[ThisTooShallPass]

I suspect that your respect for them is demonstrated by your arguments and that you don't really respect them.

But tell us what does establish that private property rights exist and what does the right confer upon a person?

Human nature establishes it. Your rights derive from what is necessary to obey natural law; and since every individual has duties to himself, his family, and his community, he requires a body of property to discharge them.

But that right is not unlimited; you literally have no more right to private property than is necessary for you to satisfy your obligations under natural law. Thus, you have a right to be free from trespassing, but this right is not so unlimited that you could, for instance, licitly sue a person for trespassing who runs across your property to escape a murderer pursuing him.

I'll explain more later if you like, but for now, I'm off to bed.

 

[BigRob]

It's time for the wealthy to step up.

Says the guy with no skin in the game. How easy it is to demand that someone else fix your problems.

 

[Openmind]

Says the guy with no skin in the game. How easy it is to demand that someone else fix your problems.

Because. . . . the deficit is not YOUR problems?

It's not Wall Street problem?

It's not EVERY American person's problem?

Because, you believe this "problem" can be fixed by squeezing the poor and the middle class ALONE, and letting the wealthy benefit from a return to a triple A standing again?

Or do you agree that the ONLY way to fix this is for a combination of decrease in spending and increase in revenue?

Is this still not your problem?

 

[ProudLefty]

Says the guy with no skin in the game. How easy it is to demand that someone else fix your problems.

Tell me what American doesn't have skin in the game? We all do, everyone of us.

I for one have had it up to my eyeballs with the wealthy using their wealth and power to step on my neck and hold me down, take the wealth I create and not pay me fairly for it, then resell the wealth I created to my fellow middle class people at outrageous prices. And then, these creeps have the audacity to say they created the wealth? Yeah. Sure they did. Those 11 guys who died on BPs oil platform were just hangers-on. The real wealth creators were the slugs sitting in the board rooms in London, eh?

 

[BigRob]

Because. . . . the deficit is not YOUR problems?

It's not Wall Street problem?

It's not EVERY American person's problem?

Because, you believe this "problem" can be fixed by squeezing the poor and the middle class ALONE, and letting the wealthy benefit from a return to a triple A standing again?

Or do you agree that the ONLY way to fix this is for a combination of decrease in spending and increase in revenue?

Is this still not your problem?

In what way are the poor and middle class supposedly going to be saddled with this on their own?

 

[BigRob]

Tell me what American doesn't have skin in the game? We all do, everyone of us.

Ok, perhaps we all have skin in the game, however the majority apparently want no part of the burden of the solution.

If we all have skin in the game, how about we all bear the burden of fixing it?

I for one have had it up to my eyeballs with the wealthy using their wealth and power to step on my neck and hold me down, take the wealth I create and not pay me fairly for it, then resell the wealth I created to my fellow middle class people at outrageous prices.

What an absurd statement. If you feel you are underpaid, find a new job. The market dictates your salary, nothing more.

And then, these creeps have the audacity to say they created the wealth? Yeah. Sure they did. Those 11 guys who died on BPs oil platform were just hangers-on. The real wealth creators were the slugs sitting in the board rooms in London, eh?

Who was it that developed the technology to perform such an operation? Who negotiated the leases and drilling rights? Who fronted a billion dollars to build and staff the rig? You? The
poor? The middle class?

What occurred on the BP rig was tragic, but those people would not have had that job period if not for someone else doing a ton of the work before hand. You call them slugs, but without those slugs doing their jobs, that rigs, or the jobs it created, would never have existed.

 

[ProudLefty]

In what way are the poor and middle class supposedly going to be saddled with this on their own?

The Republicans have been overwhelmingly clear that all the changes must come from spending. Taxes will not be an issue, except t]possibly lowering taxes even farther.

Some states are talking of class sizes in schools of more than 50 kids. Health care for the poor is clearly a goner. Infrastructure will continue to deteriorate.

What galls me the most though is that Republicans are intending to destroy Social Security. Social Security has not contributed one penny to the deficit, and is secure at least into the middle of the 2030s, but Republicans want to take that away so that Paris Hilton can have another pony and the Koch brothers can have another lawyer.

 

[BigRob]

The Republicans have been overwhelmingly clear that all the changes must come from spending. Taxes will not be an issue, except t]possibly lowering taxes even farther.

Lower taxes for everyone and that somehow burdens the poor more? What is wrong with asking government to make cuts. Are you going to argue there is nothing we can cut?

Some states are talking of class sizes in schools of more than 50 kids. Health care for the poor is clearly a goner. Infrastructure will continue to deteriorate.

In what proposal did you see health care for the poor being eliminated? None. In what proposal is all infrastructure spending ended? None. As for class sizes, I haven't seen such a thing, but if we cannot afford it then we cannot afford it.

What galls me the most though is that Republicans are intending to destroy Social Security. Social Security has not contributed one penny to the deficit, and is secure at least into the middle of the 2030s, but Republicans want to take that away so that Paris Hilton can have another pony and the Koch brothers can have another lawyer.

There is no Republican plan to end Social Security. At most, Republicans want to make common sense reforms to ensure the longevity of Social Security.

 

[clarkatticus]

Lower taxes for everyone and that somehow burdens the poor more? What is wrong with asking government to make cuts. Are you going to argue there is nothing we can cut?



In what proposal did you see health care for the poor being eliminated? None. In what proposal is all infrastructure spending ended? None. As for class sizes, I haven't seen such a thing, but if we cannot afford it then we cannot afford it.



There is no Republican plan to end Social Security. At most, Republicans want to make common sense reforms to ensure the longevity of Social Security.

More cuts mean more job loss, government workers are human, too. We made a conscious decision to vote in Medicare, medicaid, and Social Security. There is radical wing in the GOP that believes these are unnecessary programs and hold America back, they wish for the good ol days of the turn of the 20th century. 80% of America does not believe in this ideology, some of us have read of the living conditions in that era and have no intention of going back. This is the fundamental battle of our lifetime-how it got to this extreme will be written in history books 100 years from now. Can more cuts be made?- of course there is always graft in large programs, but the cuts they are asking gut social programs that are needed. We can always point out programs that are innefficient or instances of fraud but we need to look at the good side of these programs and how they have made the nation stronger. For every instance of fraud in government, I can show you 100 in the private sector, many that devastated our economy with no reprecussion to the perps. Is that what you want?