Experience

[Libsmasher]

Palin, republican VP candidate: 2 years executive experience.

Obama, democrat Prez candidate: zero years executive experience.

"Facts are stubborn things." -- John Adams

 

[Pandora]

But he has way way way way way way way way more FP experience. He lived in Indonesia at age 10 and he did visit Pakistan in college, besides that he went to Iraq for a visit just like a few months ago

so as you can see he is more than qualified ..........to do what? idunno but he is qualified!

 

[Federal Farmer]

Palin, republican VP candidate: 2 years executive experience.

Obama, democrat Prez candidate: zero years executive experience.

"Facts are stubborn things." -- John Adams

They're even more stubborn when you get 'em right!

Sarah Palin's Executive Experience;

Mayor of Wasilla Alaska from 1996-2002 (6 years)
Governor of Alaska, sworn into office December 2006 - current (20 months)

Total Executive experience, 92 months (7 years 8 months)

Now, when you combine that with McCains Executive experience

1974 - Assigned as Executive Officer of Replacement Air Group 174
1975 - Took over as Commander of Replacement Air Group 174
1977- Promoted to Captain (O-6)
1977 - Transferred as Exec. Officer of the Senate Liason Office, Pentagon
1979 - Promoted to Director of the Senate Liaison Office, Pentagon
1981 - Retired from the Navy

So, let's take a look, that would be 7 continual years of Executive experience, which, when combined with Palin's 7 1/2+ years of Executive experience, that's almost 15 years of Executive experience compared to.....what?

 

[Bunz]

They're even more stubborn when you get 'em right!

Sarah Palin's Executive Experience;

Mayor of Wasilla Alaska from 1996-2002 (6 years)
Governor of Alaska, sworn into office December 2006 - current (20 months)

Total Executive experience, 92 months (7 years 8 months)

This Mayoral role mentioned is considerably overplayed. Wasilla like most small cities around the state have what is known as a weak Mayor system. There is a city manager that is hired to run the daily operations of the city. The mayor generally has veto and tie breaking power, but does generally not vote. It is also necessary to keep in mind that the Mayor of Wasilla, is a minor player in the overall scheme of the local valley politics. There are several other communities that form a much larger borough. Known as the Mat-Su Borough. That is the powerbase for the local politics in the area.

Now, when you combine that with McCains Executive experience

1974 - Assigned as Executive Officer of Replacement Air Group 174
1975 - Took over as Commander of Replacement Air Group 174
1977- Promoted to Captain (O-6)
1977 - Transferred as Exec. Officer of the Senate Liason Office, Pentagon
1979 - Promoted to Director of the Senate Liaison Office, Pentagon
1981 - Retired from the Navy

So, let's take a look, that would be 7 continual years of Executive experience, which, when combined with Palin's 7 1/2+ years of Executive experience, that's almost 15 years of Executive experience compared to.....what?

Certainly the right could do a better job of promoting that. While he has never been elected to an executive position, he certainly has been promoted to them. Anyone who has chaired anything could be considered to have executive experience. While there is a place for it, I think overall the value of it has been skewed by both sides.

 

[Bunz]

But he has way way way way way way way way more FP experience. He lived in Indonesia at age 10 and he did visit Pakistan in college, besides that he went to Iraq for a visit just like a few months ago

so as you can see he is more than qualified ..........to do what? idunno but he is qualified!

Well both are certainly qualified from a Constitutional point of view. I think he has the necessary experience to be President, but ultimately that is an objective view point that we all have individually and it is based on perception in the eye of the voter.

Sarah on the other hand is another issue. She knows virtually zero about national security, lower 48 domestic policy and issues, and foreign issues.
Her public speaking and appearances will be scrutinized in a way she didnt think possible. She is known to speak out and say things that are unwise as is evidenced lately, and can get a tad bit over emotional at times.

Sarah has been to Canada and Iraq and that is it. She didnt get a passport until she visited Iraq last year.

 

[Federal Farmer]

This Mayoral role mentioned is considerably overplayed. Wasilla like most small cities around the state have what is known as a weak Mayor system. There is a city manager that is hired to run the daily operations of the city. The mayor generally has veto and tie breaking power, but does generally not vote. It is also necessary to keep in mind that the Mayor of Wasilla, is a minor player in the overall scheme of the local valley politics. There are several other communities that form a much larger borough. Known as the Mat-Su Borough. That is the powerbase for the local politics in the area.

Certainly the right could do a better job of promoting that. While he has never been elected to an executive position, he certainly has been promoted to them. Anyone who has chaired anything could be considered to have executive experience. While there is a place for it, I think overall the value of it has been skewed by both sides.

While Wasilla may have a "weak Mayor" system, the fact that she served on the City Council for 4 years prior to her election to Mayor, and then her 6 years as Mayor, before being elected Governor still puts her far and away ahead of Obama in Executive experience, which is what the subject of discussion is. The fact of the matter is that she's served almost 12 years in elective Office, and even with the controversies (and what elected official doesn't have to deal with those?) and when coupled with McCains years of command experience prior to his entering the Senate almost 24 years ago, that puts them head and shoulders ahead of anything the left has to offer in the area of experience.

Now if you want to discuss the meat of what they've all done in all those years in public service, or as I like to refer to it, the REAL substance of what a candidate SHOULD be vetted on by the public, I'd be absolutely ecstatic to discuss that, especially since with all of the BS mudslinging, it hasn't received nearly as much attention as it should. We can compare and contrast McCains/Palins actual record against Obamas/Bidens and then we might be able to draw a LOGICAL conclusion as to which team is actually best for America.

 

[top gun]

Caribou Barbie...

THE ONE TRUE UNQUALIFIED PERSON THAT COULD NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS DEAL WITH SOMEONE LIKE RUSSIA'S PUTIN... OR THE ECONOMY... OR ANYTHING ELSE COMPETENTLY IF SHE HAD TO TAKE OVER FOR OLD MCBUSH... IS ALSO THE SCARY PERSON IF YOU REALLY LOOK INTO WHAT SHE'S ALL ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Palin opposes women's access to abortion even in cases of rape or incest
she has a strong anti-equality record, opposing domestic partner benefits for gay couples, marriage equality, and expansion of hate crimes laws
as a mayor she reportedly asked about banning books from the library and threatened to fire a librarian who resisted
she supports the teaching of creationism in public school science classrooms

 

[Bunz]

While Wasilla may have a "weak Mayor" system, the fact that she served on the City Council for 4 years prior to her election to Mayor, and then her 6 years as Mayor, before being elected Governor still puts her far and away ahead of Obama in Executive experience, which is what the subject of discussion is.

Far and away ahead of Obama? Lets define the parameters of executive experience. Because he has run a Presidential campaign very successfully for the last 18 months. His working staff is far and away larger than Palins. Her time on the city council? Speaking from someone who is serving in my second term on the local city counil, of a town with a similar system but about half the size, I can tell you this bit of local experience is being blown way out of proportion. There are Presidents of of home owners associations in the lower 48 that wield far more power than the Mayor of Wasilla.

The fact of the matter is that she's served almost 12 years in elective Office, and even with the controversies (and what elected official doesn't have to deal with those?) and when coupled with McCains years of command experience prior to his entering the Senate almost 24 years ago, that puts them head and shoulders ahead of anything the left has to offer in the area of experience.

You simply dont get it. With the exception of our long serving and now likely leaving office Congressional delegation, Alaska politics is bush league compared to elsewhere. Even putting her in the same zip code as Obama in terms of being prepared to serve in the White House is laughable. Comparing her to Biden is a howler.

Now if you want to discuss the meat of what they've all done in all those years in public service, or as I like to refer to it, the REAL substance of what a candidate SHOULD be vetted on by the public, I'd be absolutely ecstatic to discuss that, especially since with all of the BS mudslinging, it hasn't received nearly as much attention as it should. We can compare and contrast McCains/Palins actual record against Obamas/Bidens and then we might be able to draw a LOGICAL conclusion as to which team is actually best for America.

You know the funny thing about your statement, that the right will just love...
When they look at the accomplishments of Palin they will find someone who raised taxes, and is supporting socialistic policies. She is moving to spend $500m of public money to have a Canadian company "study" the feasibility of building an Alaska gasline, in the mean time, BP and Conaco Phillips are wanting to build a privately funded gas pipeline and she is still pushing forward her project.
She flipflopped on the Bridge to Nowhere. Which that statement alone is idiotic and the fact she used it is simply an insult to the residents of the 5th largest city in the state. The Bridge to Nowhere was a bridge that would connect Ketchikan with the island its airport is on. Before she won the GOP primary she was all for it.
Socialized energy: With the price of oil high, the state coffers are overflowing. Which certainly adds to the ease of her job. With Alaskans paying the highest fuel costs in the nation she has managed a massive re-distrubution of wealth. After raising the taxes on big oil, she has managed to distribute $1200 for most Alaskan men women and children from the state general fund as an energy rebate, a half a billion dollars of government entitlement taken from one entity to the people who generally had nothing to do with producing it. Why didnt she refund the surplus back to the oil companies actually paying the tax instead of paying everyone's electricity bill.

 

[BigRob]

Far and away ahead of Obama? Lets define the parameters of executive experience. Because he has run a Presidential campaign very successfully for the last 18 months. His working staff is far and away larger than Palins. Her time on the city council? Speaking from someone who is serving in my second term on the local city counil, of a town with a similar system but about half the size, I can tell you this bit of local experience is being blown way out of proportion. There are Presidents of of home owners associations in the lower 48 that wield far more power than the Mayor of Wasilla.

I heard Obama make this argument yesterday. It is deeply flawed. It basically says that one is qualified to be President because they are able to run a campaign... I do not really buy that as executive experience...

You simply dont get it. With the exception of our long serving and now likely leaving office Congressional delegation, Alaska politics is bush league compared to elsewhere. Even putting her in the same zip code as Obama in terms of being prepared to serve in the White House is laughable. Comparing her to Biden is a howler.

Neither of them have all that much experience (Obama and Palin that is) but the problem is Obama wants to be President, she will only be the VP.

You know the funny thing about your statement, that the right will just love...
When they look at the accomplishments of Palin they will find someone who raised taxes, and is supporting socialistic policies. She is moving to spend $500m of public money to have a Canadian company "study" the feasibility of building an Alaska gasline, in the mean time, BP and Conaco Phillips are wanting to build a privately funded gas pipeline and she is still pushing forward her project.
She flipflopped on the Bridge to Nowhere. Which that statement alone is idiotic and the fact she used it is simply an insult to the residents of the 5th largest city in the state. The Bridge to Nowhere was a bridge that would connect Ketchikan with the island its airport is on. Before she won the GOP primary she was all for it.
Socialized energy: With the price of oil high, the state coffers are overflowing. Which certainly adds to the ease of her job. With Alaskans paying the highest fuel costs in the nation she has managed a massive re-distrubution of wealth. After raising the taxes on big oil, she has managed to distribute $1200 for most Alaskan men women and children from the state general fund as an energy rebate, a half a billion dollars of government entitlement taken from one entity to the people who generally had nothing to do with producing it. Why didnt she refund the surplus back to the oil companies actually paying the tax instead of paying everyone's electricity bill.

Maybe she should have.

 

[Bunz]

I heard Obama make this argument yesterday. It is deeply flawed. It basically says that one is qualified to be President because they are able to run a campaign... I do not really buy that as executive experience...

Somethings to keep in mind, there are less than 700,000 people in the entire state. Any full term mayor in the largest 50 cities in America would be considered to have more experience. I think the whole concept is being blown way out of proportion on both sides really. I would also point out that the argument that you are making against Obama and running a campaign, was a big topic of discussion before she was elected Gov.

Neither of them have all that much experience (Obama and Palin that is) but the problem is Obama wants to be President, she will only be the VP.

After 8 years of Cheney you seem to be vastly underestimating the daily role of the VP. Honestly, I am not sure she is even qualified to be the Senate President. The fact of the matter is that McCain is betting his election on Palin. The unknown, hell they might be able to pull it off, but it is a big gamble.
Also, considering this day and age, I think it necessary to think about succession issues and the other intangibles they bring to the team. Sarah brings a bright smile and nice hair at this point.



Maybe she should have.[/QUOTE]

 

[BigRob]

Somethings to keep in mind, there are less than 700,000 people in the entire state. Any full term mayor in the largest 50 cities in America would be considered to have more experience. I think the whole concept is being blown way out of proportion on both sides really. I would also point out that the argument that you are making against Obama and running a campaign, was a big topic of discussion before she was elected Gov.

I still think I would take running a town over running a political campaign. If our standards of being the President are simply start a campaign that does not collapse, then I think we have lax standards.

After 8 years of Cheney you seem to be vastly underestimating the daily role of the VP. Honestly, I am not sure she is even qualified to be the Senate President. The fact of the matter is that McCain is betting his election on Palin. The unknown, hell they might be able to pull it off, but it is a big gamble.
Also, considering this day and age, I think it necessary to think about succession issues and the other intangibles they bring to the team. Sarah brings a bright smile and nice hair at this point.

I disagree with your assessment of the VP role. I think Cheney did take a large role in the first term, but has mostly been relegated to the sidelines as of late. That said, it remains to be seen how McCain will define the VP role in his administration, I think it will be drastically different from the way Bush defined it.



Maybe she should have.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Bunz]

I still think I would take running a town over running a political campaign. If our standards of being the President are simply start a campaign that does not collapse, then I think we have lax standards.

Well the lax standards goes both ways it seems. But I think your perception of the accomplishment and necessary leadership it takes to have gotten where Obama has, is light years away from the JV politics Palin is used to. She has managed to be a big fish in a small pond. Putting her in the ocean with the sharks is an entirely different game. It might be worth while to note that there is roughly the same amount of members of Obama's old church to the poppulation of Wasilla. Chicago alone has 4x as many residents as the entire state of Alaska.

I disagree with your assessment of the VP role. I think Cheney did take a large role in the first term, but has mostly been relegated to the sidelines as of late. That said, it remains to be seen how McCain will define the VP role in his administration, I think it will be drastically different from the way Bush defined it.

Well I am not sure of the role McCain will lay out for her, but her constitutional role is to be the President of the Senate. I am sure she will need to study her tail off to just learn the parlimentary senate rules.
On top of the daily briefings on issues she knows zero about, and until this point had shown little interest.

 

[BigRob]

Well the lax standards goes both ways it seems. But I think your perception of the accomplishment and necessary leadership it takes to have gotten where Obama has, is light years away from the JV politics Palin is used to. She has managed to be a big fish in a small pond. Putting her in the ocean with the sharks is an entirely different game. It might be worth while to note that there is roughly the same amount of members of Obama's old church to the poppulation of Wasilla. Chicago alone has 4x as many residents as the entire state of Alaska.

If Obama is touting himself as a Washington outsider, how has he then "mastered varsity politics"?

I equate the experience of Obama and Palin to be very close. That said, Obama will be the President on day 1, not a "short breath away" on day 1.

Well I am not sure of the role McCain will lay out for her, but her constitutional role is to be the President of the Senate. I am sure she will need to study her tail off to just learn the parlimentary senate rules.
On top of the daily briefings on issues she knows zero about, and until this point had shown little interest.

Historically the VP never even bothers to really show up for Senate matters unless the vote will be tied so they can then cast the tie-breaker. The idea that she will suddenly have to learn parlimentary procedure is kind of a joke in my mind, as most likely she will never be there.

 

[Dr.Who]

But he has way way way way way way way way more FP experience. He lived in Indonesia at age 10 and he did visit Pakistan in college, besides that he went to Iraq for a visit just like a few months ago

so as you can see he is more than qualified ..........to do what? idunno but he is qualified!

And Putin has more foreign policy experience than all of them. But he is a representative of Russia. Can't have people from other countries coming over here and becoming President can we?

Well then perhaps Arnold Swartzenegger has more foreign policy experience and should be President since he was born in another country.

Ooops! He can't be President our founding fathers did not want people from other countries moving here and becoming President so they made a law that one has to be born here.

Hey! Wait a minute! Obama may have been born here but that is just a technicality that qualifies him to be President. He lived a good part of his life as a resident of other countries. Formative years even. Years when people learn things like how many states the Islamic Union has (57). Which is why, of course, he could correctly say that the united states has 57 states in it.

 

[Pandora]

I think its more than 57

he said he went to 57 with 1 to go, then he said not counting alaska and hawaii because his staff wouldnt let him go there

so I think he was trying to say there was 60 states