For The "We Don't Torture"-Files

[Mr. Shaman]

How long, before we hear "What the President meant to say, was....".

Senate Democrats demanded a criminal investigation into waterboarding by government interrogators Tuesday after the Bush administration acknowledged for the first time that the tactic was used on three terror suspects.

In congressional testimony Tuesday, CIA Director Michael Hayden became the first administration official to publicly acknowledge the agency used waterboarding on detainees following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

"We used it against these three detainees because of the circumstances at the time," Hayden told the Senate Intelligence Committee. "There was the belief that additional catastrophic attacks against the homeland were inevitable. And we had limited knowledge about al-Qaida and its workings. Those two realities have changed."

Hayden said Khalid Sheik Mohammed, Abu Zubayda and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri were waterboarded in 2002 and 2003. Hayden banned the technique in 2006, but National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell told senators during the same hearing Tuesday that waterboarding remains in the CIA arsenal _ so long as it as the specific consent of the president and legal approval of the attorney general.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/05/AR2008020502764.html?hpid=sec-nation​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

"Bush administration lawyers cited national security concerns Tuesday in urging a federal judge to toss out a lawsuit accusing a Boeing Co. subsidiary of illegally helping the CIA secretly fly terrorism suspects to overseas prisons to be tortured.

The American Civil Liberties Union sued Jeppesen Dataplan Inc. last year in San Jose federal court, accusing it of aiding the CIA in the "forced disappearance, torture and inhumane treatment" of five suspected terrorists in violation of national and international laws. The ACLU alleges that Jeppesen, based in San Jose, knowingly participated in the program by supplying aircraft, crews and logistical support to the CIA flights.

On Tuesday, Justice Department lawyers asked U.S. District Judge James Ware to toss the lawsuit without further litigation because of unspecified national security risks.

President Bush also has confirmed the existence of the rendition program.

"Many specifics of this program, including where these detainees have been held and the details of their confinement cannot be divulged," Bush said in a September 2006 speech defending the rendition program as a vital national security tool. "Doing so would provide our enemies with information they could use to take retribution against our allies and harm our country."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/05/AR2008020502983.html?hpid=sec-nation​

Sorry, George. That cat was let outta-the-bag, yeeeaaarrrs ago!

March 12, 2002​

The US has been secretly sending prisoners suspected of al-Qaida connections to countries where torture during interrogation is legal, according to US diplomatic and intelligence sources. Prisoners moved to such countries as Egypt and Jordan can be subjected to torture and threats to their families to extract information sought by the US in the wake of the September 11 attacks.

The normal extradition procedures have been bypassed in the transportation of dozens of prisoners suspected of terrorist connections, according to a report in the Washington Post. The suspects have been taken to countries where the CIA has close ties with the local intelligence services and where torture is permitted.

According to the report, US intelligence agents have been involved in a number of interrogations. A CIA spokesman yesterday said the agency had no comment on the allegations. A state department spokesman said the US had been "working very closely with other countries - It's a global fight against terrorism".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,665939,00.html​

 

[ilikeboobs]

So what. Waterboarding works. It's not physical torture - it's mental.
You're not drowning, you just think you are. If it stops terrorists from blowing up little kids and women, then I'm all for it.
Screw the "we're better than them so we shouldn't torture" BS. You need to fight fire with fire.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

So what. Waterboarding works. It's not physical torture - it's mental.
You're not drowning, you just think you are. If it stops terrorists from blowing up little kids and women, then I'm all for it.
Screw the "we're better than them so we shouldn't torture" BS. You need to fight fire with fire.

In-other-words......when a President LIES, it only considered a Lie when it's about Sex....right?

 

[ilikeboobs]

In-other-words......when a President LIES, it only considered a Lie when it's about Sex....right?

all politicians lie. it's not even an issue for me.
what DOES matter to me is that bad guys be taken care of so that they can't hurt the good guys.

 

[heyjude]

People, under torture have admitted to engaging in sex acts with the devil, to flying on brooms. There is nothing a person being tortured will not admit. They just need to figure out what the torturer wants them to say, and they will say that.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

all politicians lie. it's not even an issue for me.
what DOES matter to me is that bad guys be taken care of so that they can't hurt the good guys.

I'm sure that was the same sentiment.....when the Brits occupied our country.

 

[ilikeboobs]

I'm sure that was the same sentiment.....when the Brits occupied our country.

yeah but they lost. ha ha!
USA! USA!

 

[pocketfullofshells]

So what. Waterboarding works. It's not physical torture - it's mental.
You're not drowning, you just think you are. If it stops terrorists from blowing up little kids and women, then I'm all for it.
Screw the "we're better than them so we shouldn't torture" BS. You need to fight fire with fire.

1. Its against he law, its against the Geneva Convention as well.
2. All it does in most cases is gets them to say what they think you want. The idiots who bring the Nuke going on in 24 hours ....idiots.. All he has to do it lie and you wast huge resources on it, and he laughs his ass off.
3. We open up the idea that Since we do it, why should the rights of Our troops be Respected? Do all sides always do this? no but most do, and for the same reason.

"Article 17 says that "No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."

 

[Mr. Shaman]

yeah but they lost. ha ha!
USA! USA!

....Yet, the U.S. has gone-on to totally forget the downside of occupations.

I guess that's one o' the perks of the History-challenged having their Champion in the Oval Office. There's no risk of having to deal with any o' that, there historical-precedence stuff.

 

[ilikeboobs]

1. Its against he law, its against the Geneva Convention as well.
2. All it does in most cases is gets them to say what they think you want. The idiots who bring the Nuke going on in 24 hours ....idiots.. All he has to do it lie and you wast huge resources on it, and he laughs his ass off.
3. We open up the idea that Since we do it, why should the rights of Our troops be Respected? Do all sides always do this? no but most do, and for the same reason.

"Article 17 says that "No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."

screw the geneva convention. no one we've ever fought followed it. why should we, because we're morally "better" than that? pfft...

and the nuke going off in 24 hours - yeah, they might lie, but they might not. at least you have a chance to find it by threatening the guy. if you do nothing the bomb goes off. if you do something and the bomb goes off, at least you can say you tried.

USA USA!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

screw the geneva convention. no one we've ever fought followed it. why should we, because we're morally "better" than that? pfft...

and the nuke going off in 24 hours - yeah, they might lie, but they might not. at least you have a chance to find it by threatening the guy.

Threatening??? Please.

Torture is preemptive-striking on a smaller-scale.....and, we all know how successful that preemptive-striking stuff works.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

screw the geneva convention. no one we've ever fought followed it. why should we, because we're morally "better" than that? pfft...

and the nuke going off in 24 hours - yeah, they might lie, but they might not. at least you have a chance to find it by threatening the guy. if you do nothing the bomb goes off. if you do something and the bomb goes off, at least you can say you tried.

USA USA!

If you wast your resources tracing a fake lead, you risk killing evryone. And the odds of them telling the truth are slim. The Top CIA guys have even come out saying its basicly worthless.

 

[ilikeboobs]

If you wast your resources tracing a fake lead, you risk killing evryone. And the odds of them telling the truth are slim. The Top CIA guys have even come out saying its basicly worthless.

but it probably makes you feel better for doing it.


jack bauer could make them talk.

 

[heyjude]

What do we care about this country for? We work, and build our homes here and defend our country, we keep on top of politics, and worry about it. Why would we even care if this nation was no better than Syria, Iran, or Pakistan to name a few.

We, the people who love America, and respect America, do so in part because it is a great nation, that values its citizens, respects their privacy, and is a nation of laws. A nation that has high standards, and occupies the high ground.

But GWB and his cronies have tried to bring America down to the low ground, to wallow around in the muck with petty dictatorships, and tell us we are no better than they are. And some people in this country don't mind that.

I do! I mind it very much. And I and a lot of other people in America are going to the polls in November to put a stop to the destroyers of our great country.