Health Care Reform

[Hobo1]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

To have the best possible health care system we need to take all the "health care plans" now being considered by Congress and submit them to the whole nation for a 6 month period of review and comment.

People need to read and summarize these 1000 page plans. Bloggers need to blog, analysts need to analyze, think tanks need to think and Washington and Obama should be willing to listen and learn. I am positive a good, solid, comprehensive discussion on every internet forum and around the coffee pot in every office would help build a consensus.

I have read so many good comments from doctors, nurses, and everyday citizens - but Congress is in to much of a rush to hear these ideas.

Congress and Obama have enough on their plates right now. They can't possibly handle all of these complex issues AND get everything right! Yes, the US has several very urgent issues that need to be resolved. Okay, the economy deserves immediate attention. Afghanistan needs quick consideration by our top brass and political analysts.

But Health Care does not need to be solved by tomorrow (or August). Let's have a solid, nationwide debate so we can communicate with our elected representatives. Right now the lobbyists are writing this law for us - and that is wrong. Health care is a vitally important issue. Let's try to get it right -

 

[TheFranklinParty]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

To have the best possible health care system we need to take all the "health care plans" now being considered by Congress and submit them to the whole nation for a 6 month period of review and comment.

People need to read and summarize these 1000 page plans. Bloggers need to blog, analysts need to analyze, think tanks need to think and Washington and Obama should be willing to listen and learn. I am positive a good, solid, comprehensive discussion on every internet forum and around the coffee pot in every office would help build a consensus.

I have read so many good comments from doctors, nurses, and everyday citizens - but Congress is in to much of a rush to hear these ideas.

Congress and Obama have enough on their plates right now. They can't possibly handle all of these complex issues AND get everything right! Yes, the US has several very urgent issues that need to be resolved. Okay, the economy deserves immediate attention. Afghanistan needs quick consideration by our top brass and political analysts.

But Health Care does not need to be solved by tomorrow (or August). Let's have a solid, nationwide debate so we can communicate with our elected representatives. Right now the lobbyists are writing this law for us - and that is wrong. Health care is a vitally important issue. Let's try to get it right -

I agree - let's take a little time to get it right.

Also, why is there no conversation on tort reform. Some reports suggest that eliminating the huge civil suits would reduce healthcare cost by 15% -25%.

There was another article recently in Forbes that suggests cash payment to hospitals can create up to a 50% discount on services. This matches a conversation I had with a hospital administrator who said that up to 40% of their expense structure is caused by insurance billing errors, payment omissions, and payment delays.

Just wonder if we clean these two areas up, might we not find that cost reduction we're looking for with the "New" Health plan.

 

[top gun]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Most Canadians I have talked to, and I have talked to several over a period of years, seem to find their system at least as good as ours.

Rising costs will deny the level of health care we now consider standard out of reach of more and more Americans over the next few years, if we don't take some action now.

I have friends that I just had this conversation with on my facebook page that live in Toronto. They're a Chinese couple in their late 20's both born and raised in Canada.

Not that people who hate Obama and don't want healthcare reform will believe me but I'm sure you and some others will so I'm going to go to my page and copy the correspondence and just blank out my real name.

This was originally me commenting on a picture of them dressed up at a wedding, she misunderstood the delay part and thought I was delayed at the airport... and then her response...

**** ********* Two things you guys always seem to be doing... looking good & having fun. While I'm down here having to fight with the delay, do nothing, delay some more Conservatives who lately spend all their time condemning your Canadian healthcare system.

To which I say... I know Canadians, Canadians are friends of mine, my friends look very, very happy & healthy to me!
Conservatives... how can we miss 'em if they won't go away LOL!
Tue at 5:55pm


Priscilla P Hey **** how are you? It's been a while how is the summer treating it's been really cool here in Toronto. I can't believe your flight got delayed at least you got facebook to keep you occupied. You're always fun and sweet and wonderful compliments. They are just haters they really are envious of our health care system because we take care of everyone not just the rich and famous. I hope all is well with you have a safe flight Cheers Priss
Tue at 6:27pm


Now that's directly from people who's families have lived in Canada for going on 3 generations. I mean that's just what they think. That's why all this scare tactic stuff is so weak if you really know people in Canada.

 

[BigRob]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

I have friends that I just had this conversation with on my facebook page that live in Toronto. They're a Chinese couple in their late 20's both born and raised in Canada.

Not that people who hate Obama and don't want healthcare reform will believe me but I'm sure you and some others will so I'm going to go to my page and copy the correspondence and just blank out my real name.

This was originally me commenting on a picture of them dressed up at a wedding, she misunderstood the delay part and thought I was delayed at the airport... and then her response...

**** ********* Two things you guys always seem to be doing... looking good & having fun. While I'm down here having to fight with the delay, do nothing, delay some more Conservatives who lately spend all their time condemning your Canadian healthcare system.

To which I say... I know Canadians, Canadians are friends of mine, my friends look very, very happy & healthy to me!
Conservatives... how can we miss 'em if they won't go away LOL!
Tue at 5:55pm


Priscilla P Hey **** how are you? It's been a while how is the summer treating it's been really cool here in Toronto. I can't believe your flight got delayed at least you got facebook to keep you occupied. You're always fun and sweet and wonderful compliments. They are just haters they really are envious of our health care system because we take care of everyone not just the rich and famous. I hope all is well with you have a safe flight Cheers Priss
Tue at 6:27pm


Now that's directly from people who's families have lived in Canada for going on 3 generations. I mean that's just what they think. That's why all this scare tactic stuff is so weak if you really know people in Canada.

I have friends and family in Canada as well and they are about split on the healthcare system. Since personal examples are mostly meaningless in my opinion as you can find someone anywhere who will agree with a certain position, it has to be statistics that we use to conclude which system is better.

Personally, I find little that the government has ever run that has cost what they said it would and been as effective as they said it would. And in both countries health care prices are rising faster than inflation. It is a tough problem, it must be addressed, but we need to actually address it and take in all viewpoints. The plan of dropping huge bills that no one can read and trying to force it through Congress is not how this needs to get done.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

I agree - let's take a little time to get it right.

Also, why is there no conversation on tort reform. Some reports suggest that eliminating the huge civil suits would reduce healthcare cost by 15% -25%.

That's an ooooooooooooooooooooold issue....from clear-back in the '90s (at that time, regarding Medical Malpractice Insurance)....when, after the research was done, it'd turned-out that insurance-payouts were closer to 3%!!!!​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Personally, I find little that the government has ever run that has cost what they said it would and been as effective as they said it would.

....And, that'd have nothing-to-do with businesses/individuals gaming-the-system, right??

Is there some abstract-reason for rules only applying to sporting-events??​

And in both countries health care prices are rising faster than inflation.

I've often-wondered how people can make such statements (as this), without showing those (same) numbers.

How can you...or, Porky Limbaugh, for that matter...speak with such certainty, without supporting what you claim??

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Just wonder if we clean these two areas up, might we not find that cost reduction we're looking for with the "New" Health plan.

How 'bout we insist on REPUBLICAN-participation??!!!​

 

[TheFranklinParty]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

That's an ooooooooooooooooooooold issue....from clear-back in the '90s (at that time, regarding Medical Malpractice Insurance)....when, after the research was done, it'd turned-out that insurance-payouts were closer to 3%!!!!​

You've to be kidding...right now most doctors in Florida are working without Malpractice Insurance because the cost would put them out of business. OB/GYN doctors are forcing patients to sign arbitration waivers just so they can keep their practice going. Most hospitals play prevent (being sued) defense when caring for patients. Surgeons are turning down most risky surgeries because their risk managers are telling them to avoid potential civil lawsuits.

By the way the Forbes magazine I'm referencing is this month's issue. Page 62...

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

You've to be kidding...right now most doctors in Florida are working without Malpractice Insurance because the cost would put them out of business. OB/GYN doctors are forcing patients to sign arbitration waivers just so they can keep their practice going. Most hospitals play prevent (being sued) defense when caring for patients. Surgeons are turning down most risky surgeries because their risk managers are telling them to avoid potential civil lawsuits.

Hey....I'm not arguing ANY of that, only that....insurance-rates have had nothing-to-do with lawsuits!!!

During the Clinton Years, insurance-investments were generating great-returns!!! There's no way I'd (even) consider justifying those returns, 'cause it was happening through-out The Market. The Market was one, giant Musical-Chairs game.

When everyone seemed to be cashing-out, all-of-a-sudden those insurance-investments were losing-value! So...what magic did the insurance-industry spin? Simple! Just start boosting their premiums!!! The investors were happy (with uninterrupted-gains), and policy-holders were gettin' SCREWED!!!

In 1996, I started doing contract-work. My financial-advisor manged to find a health-care policy that was costing me $245/mo. That rate held steady, until (around) 1999 or 2000, after-which the price started increasing $100/mo., each year!!! Right before I'd started a full-time gig, in the Fall of 2002, it had reached a monthly-premium of $575!!!

The suggestion that all-of-a-sudden lawsuits were goin'-through-the-roof is absurd....especially when that excuse was being generated by the insurance-companies.

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2006 - Study Casts Doubt on Claims That the Medical Malpractice System Is Plagued By Frivolous Lawsuits

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[top gun]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

I have friends and family in Canada as well and they are about split on the healthcare system. Since personal examples are mostly meaningless in my opinion as you can find someone anywhere who will agree with a certain position, it has to be statistics that we use to conclude which system is better.

Personally, I find little that the government has ever run that has cost what they said it would and been as effective as they said it would. And in both countries health care prices are rising faster than inflation. It is a tough problem, it must be addressed, but we need to actually address it and take in all viewpoints. The plan of dropping huge bills that no one can read and trying to force it through Congress is not how this needs to get done.

That's fair.

And I'm sure there are some people in Canada that aren't as fully supportive of their system. But I'd still go to this as a broader view...

91 percent of Canadians like their health care system
Chuck Sweeny
July 1st, 2008

U.S. politicians — Republican variety — love to disparage Canada’s national health care system with the fact-free observation that Canadians come here to get vital operations so they don’t have to wait in line in Canada.

Because I’m a frequent visitor to Canada, and I actually talk to real people there, I’ve replied to these Republicans that Canadians I’ve talked to say they wouldn’t trade their health care for anything else, especially America’s roll-of-the-dice nonsystem of private insurance — “maybe we’ll cover you for that, maybe we won’t.”

Now I have data to back up these informal conversations: In a new, bi-national opinion poll done by Canada’s CTV television network and the national newspaper Globe & Mail, 91 percent of Canadians said they prefered their national health care system over America’s pseudo-private system.

Ninety-One percent. In the world of scientific opinion polling, that’s about as unanimous as you ever get.

Also, 45 percent of Americans surveyed prefered Canada’s system, and 42 percent prefered to stick with what we’ve got.

The poll also showed that more Canadians, 26 percent, like Barack Obama better than their own leader. Prime Minister Stephen Harper got 21 percent. Harper, a Conservative, is running a minority government in a country that is decidedly more liberal than the U.S.

It’s July 1. Happy Canada Day.

Entry Filed under: Canada Poll

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In fact, you’re more likely to find Americans hitting up Mexico for its dramatically cheaper health care:

Driven by rising health care costs at home, nearly 1 million Californians cross the border each year to seek medical care in Mexico, according a new paper by UCLA researchers and colleagues published today in the journal Medical Care.

An estimated 952,000 California adults sought medical, dental or prescription services in Mexico annually.

 

[TheFranklinParty]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Hey....I'm not arguing ANY of that, only that....insurance-rates have had nothing-to-do with lawsuits!!!​

During the Clinton Years, insurance-investments were generating great-returns!!! There's no way I'd (even) consider justifying those returns, 'cause it was happening through-out The Market. The Market was one, giant Musical-Chairs game.​

When everyone seemed to be cashing-out, all-of-a-sudden those insurance-investments were losing-value! So...what magic did the insurance-industry spin? Simple! Just start boosting their premiums!!! The investors were happy (with uninterrupted-gains), and policy-holders were gettin' SCREWED!!! ​

In 1996, I started doing contract-work. My financial-advisor manged to find a health-care policy that was costing me $245/mo. That rate held steady, until (around) 1999 or 2000, after-which the price started increasing $100/mo., each year!!! Right before I'd started a full-time gig, in the Fall of 2002, it had reached a monthly-premium of $575!!!​

The suggestion that all-of-a-sudden lawsuits were goin'-through-the-roof is absurd....especially when that excuse was being generated by the insurance-companies.​

***​

2006 - Study Casts Doubt on Claims That the Medical Malpractice System Is Plagued By Frivolous Lawsuits​

***​

I'll agree that it's not about the lawsuits themselves, but it does have an impact on the amount of gatekeeping and process cycles that end up costing health providers which in turn increases the overall cost of healthcare.

For once we agree more than disagree...

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Surgeons are turning down most risky surgeries because their risk managers are telling them to avoid potential civil lawsuits.

Bill-O Gets Involved!!!!!​

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Malpractice Myths and Coverups

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[Hobo1]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

That's an ooooooooooooooooooooold issue....from clear-back in the '90s (at that time, regarding Medical Malpractice Insurance)....when, after the research was done, it'd turned-out that insurance-payouts were closer to 3%!!!!​

Let me clarify why some people say 25% and some say 3%. Doctors, hospitals and other health care professionals must buy Medial Malpractice (or Liability) Insurance. This insurance pays for their defense if they are sued for malpractice. The cost of this insurance is about 3% of the total money paid for health care.

The major problem is the extra expenses that doctors incur just to be "extra careful" that they will not face a malpractice lawsuit. A doctor can spend a year out of his life in court if he is sued for malpractice.

So doctors are forced to perform this "extra careful" treatment which involves expensive tests that are not necessary, using the most modern technology and medicine to treat a disease - when an older, less expensive treatment is just as effective.

That is where the 25% extra cost is incurred.

 

[Andy]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Let me clarify why some people say 25% and some say 3%. Doctors, hospitals and other health care professionals must buy Medial Malpractice (or Liability) Insurance. This insurance pays for their defense if they are sued for malpractice. The cost of this insurance is about 3% of the total money paid for health care.

The major problem is the extra expenses that doctors incur just to be "extra careful" that they will not face a malpractice lawsuit. A doctor can spend a year out of his life in court if he is sued for malpractice.

So doctors are forced to perform this "extra careful" treatment which involves expensive tests that are not necessary, using the most modern technology and medicine to treat a disease - when an older, less expensive treatment is just as effective.

That is where the 25% extra cost is incurred.

Oh! This is new. Let's hear it for Hobo providing new information, unlike some who spout recycled crap non-stop with multi-colored links.

Um, this is the first I've heard of this. Do you have a source? I'd like to know more.

 

[top gun]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Let me clarify why some people say 25% and some say 3%. Doctors, hospitals and other health care professionals must buy Medial Malpractice (or Liability) Insurance. This insurance pays for their defense if they are sued for malpractice. The cost of this insurance is about 3% of the total money paid for health care.

The major problem is the extra expenses that doctors incur just to be "extra careful" that they will not face a malpractice lawsuit. A doctor can spend a year out of his life in court if he is sued for malpractice.

So doctors are forced to perform this "extra careful" treatment which involves expensive tests that are not necessary, using the most modern technology and medicine to treat a disease - when an older, less expensive treatment is just as effective.

That is where the 25% extra cost is incurred.

I doubt highly that additional testing bring the costs from 3% TO 25%. That's just way overinflated. Although I believe there is some extra testing costs involved.

But even accepting your premise on face value what makes sense then is what President Obama is purposing... an official standards & practices type of review Board of healthcare professionals. Add to that President Obama has talked often about wanting to eliminate repetitious tests on the same patient on the same problem but by different doctors creating costs savings on test in that way.

This gives the accepted guideline to go by hence giving doctors a huge up front alli that procedures were correct and up front.

The general idea on the other side is just make it harder to sue for malpractice and/or cap judgments so the financial hits for being found guilty of malpractice would be limited.

The problem with the second train of thought lies in the fact that with little worry of loosing money (being sued) it has long been an insurance company tactic to sometimes simply weigh risk and then be willing to cut corners on safety because cost analysis shows they can pay claims and it is still cheaper for them in the long run.

However I will say this. I'm not completely opposed to some cap system on malpractice claims. The thing is I believe the caps have to still be somewhat high to allow the proper deterrent effect.

Remember everyone wants their healthcare cost to go down by limiting malpractice awards until it's their child that gets the toxic injection of the wrong medicine and they almost die as happened recently with Dennis Quaid's infant twins or this headline is about your father's trip to the hospital...

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - The state has suspended the license of a doctor who amputated a toe without consent, five months after he removed the wrong leg of another patient.