Holocaust denier sentenced to 5 years

T3sting

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
17
"MANNHEIM, Germany - A German court on Thursday convicted far-right activist Ernst Zundel and sentenced him to five years in prison for Holocaust denial in a case that underlined Germany's determination to prosecute people who claim the Nazis didn't murder six million Jews.
ADVERTISEMENT

The 67-year-old Zundel, who was deported from Canada in 2005, was convicted on 14 counts of inciting hatred for years of anti-Semitic activities, including contributing to a Web site devoted to denying the Holocaust — a crime in Germany."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070215/ap_on_re_eu/germany_incitement_trial


What kind of crime is that?
 
Werbung:

Quirky

New Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
1
I have to agree. I am Jewish, my great-grandfather died in Nazi Germany. However, I have a real problem with throwing people in jail for taking an unpopular position. Ignorance can be dangerous, and it is certainly annoying, but it isn't a crime (yet).
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Messages
1,906
Location
Heart of Europe
Yeah.

I don't see why a person should be put in jail because of a belief.

That's the same as killing other people for believing in another religion.
 

Abe Bird

Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
9
Denial the holocaust is not a belief

Denial the holocaust is not a belief but a preposterous action. If you can approve scientifically that Jews hide corns behind their ears and tails on their rear it won't be Anti Semitic remark but a factual one. But if you say that Jews have tails. The nature of Anti Semitism is a dangerous folklore which based on rumors, conspiracy theories and other imaginary products of the hate's beholders. A culture can't exist on biased facts which proven to cause death. Anti Semitism is dangerous not only to Jews but to all human kind. Now when the Jews have their on political and military power it will be wise for us if we kill Anti Semites at their birth, in order to keep the world clean and safe. In the Holocaust we stood by and watched silently how Nazis murder 6 million Jews. Since the Holocaust, 30 millions innocent civilians had been murdered by their own regimes http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/483/521.html. Hate is the most dangerous weapon human kind ever invented. And as had been already proven, the fire can't be controlled the moment it burst.
 

drippinhun

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
224
I don't believe those who question the extent or the causation of the Holocaust should be denied their forum. While at least 3 billion people have died since the Holocaust, the 30 million who have died since then hasn't been a result of hatred, rather the quest for power. Destroy power, not people is the only real path.
 

mustardayonnaise

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2007
Messages
48
I agree that Holocaust deniers shouldn't be prosecuted for their beliefs or words, but I can understand where the Germans are coming from on this one. I live in Germany and one thing I've noticed since moving here that I wasn't aware of before coming over is the level of guilt and shame that the country as a whole feels over the Holocaust. You don't notice it on an individual level, but it's always behind the scenes at a national level. The Germans are by nature a very officious people; they like everything regulated and orderly. So when someone comes out publicly and denies that the Holocaust even happened it makes the rest of the country happy. Generally the Germans don't feel it's harsh to lock someone up for Holocaust denial; it's something that nobody should do, so they see it as punishable.
 

lipmonkey

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
145
Location
Northeast zoo
Ernst Zundel's real crime seems to be inciting hatred more so than just denying the holocaust ever happened. After looking into his background it seems this guy isn't playing with a full deck.

It seems Ernest a.k.a Christof Friedrich, also wrote several publications promoting the idea that UFOs are really secret weapons of Nazis who had fled to Neu-Schwabenland in Antarctica. The UFOs supposedly monitored humanity and were part of a secret plan to re-conquer the world at an unspecified time.
 

drippinhun

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
224
To me the best solution would have been to invite Mr. Zundel on television and let him present his evidence so it could be challenged. Like with my country's position regarding Cuba, to me if we are correct, then it should be no problem with me being allowed to see for myself what I've been told. But to hide and bury this without open tests, suggests something is being hidden. Not an intelligent method to assuage doubt.
 

Beetle Bailey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
131
Funny how people leap at the opportunity to defend someone's right to say anything. No matter what. As if anti semitism and holocaust denial has any intellectual capital at all. Like it's just another academic argument. Five years isn't enough. I hope he gets shanked in prison while giving one of his lectures. That would be justice.
 

drippinhun

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
224
Funny how people leap at the opportunity to defend someone's right to say anything. No matter what. As if anti semitism and holocaust denial has any intellectual capital at all. Like it's just another academic argument. Five years isn't enough. I hope he gets shanked in prison while giving one of his lectures. That would be justice.

Nice. And what country do you represent? Surely not the US and that little thing called freedom of speech.
 

Kwaku

Active Member
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
35
Freedom of speech is especially important when it comes to opinions that shock and offend: Shutting people up is never a good idea, it'll only give this weirdo and his supporters the moral high ground and I guess nobody could want that?
 

Sadistic Savior

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
97
Ernst Zundel's real crime seems to be inciting hatred more so than just denying the holocaust ever happened.

He wasnt convicted for inciting hatred. He was convicted for denying the holocaust.

After looking into his background it seems this guy isn't playing with a full deck.

So what? He shouldnt be allowed to speak because you think what he has to say is crazy?

If its crazy, wont it be obvious to everyone?

To me the best solution would have been to invite Mr. Zundel on television and let him present his evidence so it could be challenged.

Which is how we handle them in America. White supreamists here have made parodies of themselves on shows like Jerry Springer. Thats why they have no power here.

When you try to restrict their speech, you give their words power. Young people, who are naturally rebellious anyway, will assume you are trying to hide something from them.

Their ideology is inferior and their claims are not supported by the existing evidence. Thats why I am not afraid of what they have to say. Leave it to Europeans to make opinions a crime.

Funny how people leap at the opportunity to defend someone's right to say anything. No matter what.

Why is that funny?

As if anti semitism and holocaust denial has any intellectual capital at all. Like it's just another academic argument.

Who gets to decide which opinions should be against the law? Would you like the Republicans to be in charge of such laws?

You people are such hypocrites.
 

Beetle Bailey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
131
Nice. And what country do you represent? Surely not the US and that little thing called freedom of speech.

I wasn't aware that anyone here "represented" any country. Do you have diplomatic status? Do you lobby for a foriegn government? No one here represents anything but their own opinions. Oh, and by the way. Actual freedom of speech doesn't exist anywhere. Do you really believe that it is legal to say what ever you want, where ever you want, when ever you want? No, of course not. So I guess then it's not really a matter of principal but merely one of context and degree. The pompous horse **** just never stops.
 
Werbung:

Sadistic Savior

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
97
Do you really believe that it is legal to say what ever you want, where ever you want, when ever you want?

All freedom of speech means is that you can express your opinion freely.

Yes, in the US you can freely express any opinion you want. The fact that you dont have the right to express it in my kitchen doesnt mean you dont have free speech.

In Europe they have effectively criminalized certain opinions. Not actions, but opinions.
 
Top