Isn't it all just interpretation?

samsara15

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Do we see the world we live in such a biased way that we can't even understand that others see it very differently? Do we have to call them evil or stupid because they don't see it our way? Can't we talk to each other without descending to insults? Do we really think the other side are evil people?

Can't we spend just a little time discussing why we all see the world in such differing ways?

I despair of the future of our nation, if we cannot do so.
 
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Do we see the world we live in such a biased way that we can't even understand that others see it very differently? Do we have to call them evil or stupid because they don't see it our way? Can't we talk to each other without descending to insults? Do we really think the other side are evil people?

Can't we spend just a little time discussing why we all see the world in such differing ways?

I despair of the future of our nation, if we cannot do so.

Lead by example and hopefully the rest will follow.

Your last thread was more attacking than you probably realized. Everything was all the conservatives fault. If you start a conversation that way you are bound to get treated back the same way.

This thread is different, its not accusing or finger pointing or laying the blame on the other guy its very neutral and you are bound to get better feed back than the last thread.

So, Its really about compromise for the two sides to get along.

Where would you be willing to compromise in the grand scheme of things?

hot issues are



Military
terrorism
taxes
health care
abortion
death penalty



Assuming you are on the left leaning side of these issues, where would you be willing to give...?



Most on the left think we must cut the military drastically...where are you willing to give.

Where are you willing to give on fighting terrorism?

Are you willing to say we already pay enough in taxes and maybe there should be cuts or move in this area (outside of higher taxes)?

What is the least you are willing to accept on this current health care argument?

Can we at least agree not to cut babies about ready to be born? Is there any place you can give an inch on the aborting human babies?

Im already with you on the DP but many are not...Im sure they would like some giving in this department?
 
I don't think we pay enough taxes, at either state or federal level.

I think our military is much too large and aggressive. I'm not sure an aggressive policy has made any headway against terrorism. I think we have reached the level of paranoia on terrorism. A day or two ago I discovered I may have been a victim of identity theft, using various versions of my full name, some of which were not even correct That could put me on the no-fly list, or even you, if you were so victimized.

Death Penalty and abortion are akin issues. One left, one right.

On abortion, late term, would you let mothers die, to save the baby, or vice versa? Would you save damaged babies, but deny care to healthy, but low income adults?

I have no strong feelings on the Death Penalty, other than commenting that it stops repeat offenders, but does not otherwise ever seemed to have a very good deterrent.

I would welcome a Conservative heath care alternative. The present system is falling apart, and will get worse as time passes.

I do realize I am often wrong, and that my judgment is sometimes faulty, and that sometimes, the other side has more claim to prudence than my own. I'm just not sure when. None of us, and no faction, has any lock on good sense.
 
I don't think we pay enough taxes, at either state or federal level.

This I figured but where is your compromise on the issue? Thinking we should pay more is not much of a compromise to those who think we pay too much.

My compromise would be freeze it at current levels till they get a handle on wasteful spending and fraud then add funding to those things that have shown they really did reduce waste and fraud but still are lacking for funding for legitimate causes and can prove it. I compromise by not cutting and increasing where its been proven its not good money after bad being wasted.


I think our military is much too large and aggressive. I'm not sure an aggressive policy has made any headway against terrorism. I think we have reached the level of paranoia on terrorism. A day or two ago I discovered I may have been a victim of identity theft, using various versions of my full name, some of which were not even correct That could put me on the no-fly list, or even you, if you were so victimized.

Fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion but again, where is your compromise? Mine would be the same as I gave for higher taxes and funding social programs.



Death Penalty and abortion are akin issues. One left, one right.

I hate the death penalty but would be willing to accept it in rare cases where there is no doubt (not just reasonable doubt) the person was guilty of cold blooded murder


On abortion, late term, would you let mothers die, to save the baby, or vice versa? Would you save damaged babies, but deny care to healthy, but low income adults?

I would never say let a child live and a mother die. If anyone could come up with a case where you had to kill a child 8 or 9 months in gestation to save a woman’s life I would agree it had to be done.

I have just never heard of any case where a woman’s life was so at risk you had to force a baby to be born breech then right before the babies head came out you stabbed it in the back of the neck till you knew the baby was dead before letting its head come out.

I think all abortion is murder except when it’s a tubular pregnancy. If you do not abort a tubular pregnancy both the mother and child will die, abortion is the only option in that case.

As much as I am against abortion I could live with the compromise of abortions being ok up til the 3d month or pregnancy. Its enough time for a woman to know she is pregnant and make arrangement and still early enough in the pregnancy that many argue on if it’s a fetus, human or what ever.

I do not see you compromising in this at all, you seem to be wanting abortion legal to the due date.


I have no strong feelings on the Death Penalty, other than commenting that it stops repeat offenders, but does not otherwise ever seemed to have a very good deterrent.

I have really strong feelings about it but in some cases where there is no doubt of who did the cold blooded murder I accept societies wishes even though I really do not agree with it. But again only in cases where there is no doubt!

I would welcome a Conservative heath care alternative. The present system is falling apart, and will get worse as time passes.

I see real compromise here and I think that is fantastic. You are probably more willing to compromise on this issue than I am. I at best would be willing to insure all the children of the US without complaint.


I do realize I am often wrong, and that my judgment is sometimes faulty, and that sometimes, the other side has more claim to prudence than my own. I'm just not sure when. None of us, and no faction, has any lock on good sense.

Being able to admit you are wrong is a really good quality. I admire that about you :)
 
I despair of humanity's futrue, as we, Pandora, not just our nations. I think you have made valid points.

On another forum, in a similar mood of despair, I asked what would be lost if humankind were wiped out by a comet. People hated the thread, saw it as a real downer, but no one could really come up with much of substance to defend the existence of humanity. My own best thought seemed to be that some of the good things we do, and some of the art we create, and the love we have for others (now and then), might justify our existence, but even that was a shadowy and weak justification.
 
I despair of humanity's futrue, as we, Pandora, not just our nations. I think you have made valid points.

On another forum, in a similar mood of despair, I asked what would be lost if humankind were wiped out by a comet. People hated the thread, saw it as a real downer, but no one could really come up with much of substance to defend the existence of humanity. My own best thought seemed to be that some of the good things we do, and some of the art we create, and the love we have for others (now and then), might justify our existence, but even that was a shadowy and weak justification.

Its sad that you are so depressed about human kind. I do not think humans deserve to be saved from a comet, but I can not think of any other animal who deserves it either. I do not think we are here or ever have been here because we have ever deserved it.

I hope you feel better. When you are down have you ever tried to get around things that make you feel better? No matter how upset I am, holding/playing with a puppy will make me feel tons better. Some people its little babies, they are cute but puppies totally cure sad spells for me. And older couples, like nursing home older who are still holding hands and being all in love, that always makes me feel better too.
 
Do we see the world we live in such a biased way that we can't even understand that others see it very differently? Do we have to call them evil or stupid because they don't see it our way? Can't we talk to each other without descending to insults? Do we really think the other side are evil people?

Can't we spend just a little time discussing why we all see the world in such differing ways?
How 'bout when someone's making-up the World they see?

It's hardly bias, when they're Lies.

:rolleyes:
 
I don't think we pay enough taxes, at either state or federal level.

I think we pay far too much but thats mailny a function of spending far too much.

I think our military is much too large and aggressive. I'm not sure an aggressive policy has made any headway against terrorism. I think we have reached the level of paranoia on terrorism. A day or two ago I discovered I may have been a victim of identity theft, using various versions of my full name, some of which were not even correct That could put me on the no-fly list, or even you, if you were so victimized.

the military does what it's told so if you find it too aggressive, need to address that with the administration and Congress. too large ? I don't think so but it could stand cost containment via puchasing controls and a seperation for politics.

Death Penalty and abortion are akin issues. One left, one right.

On abortion, late term, would you let mothers die, to save the baby, or vice versa? Would you save damaged babies, but deny care to healthy, but low income adults?

strawman. deliver the baby. if it dies, it does. the mother is not the issue here.

I have no strong feelings on the Death Penalty, other than commenting that it stops repeat offenders, but does not otherwise ever seemed to have a very good deterrent.

return to a speedy trial and see the deterrance improve.

I would welcome a Conservative heath care alternative. The present system is falling apart, and will get worse as time passes.

and they've offered it.

None of us, and no faction, has any lock on good sense.

speak for yourself hotrod ! :D:D:D
 
Do we see the world we live in such a biased way that we can't even understand that others see it very differently?

I do understand that others see it differently. I happen to think they are wrong, and I don't see how compromise of my principles will advance the human condition.

Do we have to call them evil or stupid because they don't see it our way? Can't we talk to each other without descending to insults? Do we really think the other side are evil people?

Not evil, just wrong. These issues that we discuss matter. It's not like we are all picking out colors for the sheets on the bunk beds, and none of the decisions really matter, so we can just take turns. Everybody has the right to have an opinion as well as the right to express that opinion. But to assume that all opinions are inherently equal and deserving of consideration is sheer lunacy. Do we take into consideration the opinion of rapists when we write the laws governing rape? No, because they are wrong, and it doesn't matter what their opinion is. The decisions that our nation makes matter more than anything else we do. We can allow prosperity or we can force collective misery.

Can't we spend just a little time discussing why we all see the world in such differing ways?

I think I can give you a pretty good handle on it right now. Conservatives see the world as it is, and we do not believe that we can legislate away inequality. Even on a level playing field, there are players more skilled than others, and there are winners and losers. Liberals on the other hand believe that reality is malleable. They think that if they can just get some really super duper smart people in charge of everything, that everything they see in the world as unfair can be "corrected". There is no problem to small for the scope of liberalism. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, but honestly it is kind of childish. I think Liberals never grow out of the mentality that somebody needs to be in charge of everybody making sure that nobody's slice of cake is bigger than the slices everybody else got.

I despair of the future of our nation, if we cannot do so.

I agree. I think that the partisan divide will only grow wider. Perhaps in fifty years, or maybe one hundred years, we could see a second civil war. Conservatives are just so ideologically separate from liberals it's hard to see anything else happening. We just want government to leave us alone. Liberals see the role of government as taking from some that have earned to reward those who have not. You underestimate the resentment this breeds if you think my prediction is hyperbolic. It is hard to not hate someone who is stealing from you and telling you that they have the right to do so and that you can't do anything about it because they have the numbers. To then go to that person's house and have a BBQ, and pretend like we're all friends is hard for me to imagine. There is real hatred out there Samsara. Like I said, we aren't just disagreeing about what color to paint the mail boxes. We are disagreeing about whether or not some have a right to exist at the expense of others. If the product of my labor provides food and shelter for you against my will, how can you imagine that I wouldn't loath you for it.
 
Do we see the world we live in such a biased way that we can't even understand that others see it very differently? Do we have to call them evil or stupid because they don't see it our way? Can't we talk to each other without descending to insults? Do we really think the other side are evil people?

Can't we spend just a little time discussing why we all see the world in such differing ways?

I despair of the future of our nation, if we cannot do so.

You make a good observation.

We have come to a place in politics where it's seen as better to just keep the opposition Party and it's leaders from looking good, even when deserved...

than it is to try and compromise and actually be leaders and make something better.
 
Don't we all make up the world we see, to some extent, Top Gun? Make it up according to our sentiments, perhaps. Where do our world views come from, anyway?
 
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Don't we all make up the world we see, to some extent, Top Gun? Make it up according to our sentiments, perhaps. Where do our world views come from, anyway?

The idea that reality conforms to opinion is not intellectually sound. Progress can only be made when opinion conforms to reality. Oddly enough progressives hate this idea.
 
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