Israel is guilty of occupation, apartheid and colonialism,

[Lilly Marlene]

am I seeing really that we are debating policy based on the bible?

Actually I think palerider makes a far more convincing case basing his on religious ideas, than others make by using the Holocaust.

[And as Friendindeed noted, it goes without saying that it's far more convincing than the tactic of just stepping in to call people "antisemitic" or "Nazis".]

Why ?

Because palerider forces the question to fence sitters, and so many Americans ARE fence sitters.
That is,
In order to deal with him, one must clarify one's position and there really is no equivocating.

Whereas,

Utilizing the Holocaust as a grounds for Israel's supposed right to come in there and take over ...begs the question Aminadijad asked ( which loosely paraphrased is,
"If it's all about the crimes committed against Jews by Europeans in the Holocaust then why isn't the homeland located in Europe ?")

Now to Smila and anyone else who might want to come and jump all over my stuff, that is Amadinejad's question which I am quoting so don't try to attribute it to me.

I also want to speak to something I didn't see before, namely, look at this sentence from three posts above:

I will give you credit though for couching your anti-Israel sentiments in such a civil tone. You almost make anti-semitism look scholarly.

There is the reflexive equivalence made there between "anti-Israel" and "anti-semitism" as though they were the same thing.
Does all the material I posted about the Neturei Karta fall on blind eyes ?

Is it not just a little absurd to accuse Jews of being "anti semitic" ?
Yet that is what it amounts to, because they are strenuously opposed to the State of Israel.

 

[valgal]

Lilly, I suppose for me the utilization of one's belief system as a justification for policy is not appropriate. It is a belief system it is not a proven system and is based on the subjectivity of belief not on facts. I am a bit taken a back by this approach.

If God were real and if the Bible was his word then there would not be a thing that man could do if his will was for the state of Israel, therefore the point of arguement is moot.

However to expect the world to fall into line with the interpretation of a subjective document to formulate policy of this magnitude, well it just is not sensible.

I do agree with you that logic would seem to dictate that the Jewish homeland should be in a place where the crime was comitted if that is the justification for the state of Israel.

I have no opposition to the state of Israel in its current location but I do have some grave misgivings on the continued expansion of its borders as well as the many people that have been uprooted from their family homes, had those homes either confiscated and inhabited by others or destroyed for development. For those people my heart goes to.

 

[Lilly Marlene]

Lilly, I suppose for me the utilization of one's belief system as a justification for policy is not appropriate. It is a belief system it is not a proven system and is based on the subjectivity of belief not on facts. I am a bit taken a back by this approach.

Ya I know what you mean; I pointed that out to my opponent too (that I don't think we can formulate policy on it).
But just in comparison to the Holocaust argument I think his is a more effective one.

If God were real and if the Bible was his word then there would not be a thing that man could do if his will was for the state of Israel, therefore the point of arguement is moot.

That is a really good insight Val ! Of course my opponent probably shares that with you and figures that I'm on the hellbound train because of my views ...
since apparently some people cannot be troubled to consider the strong Biblical foundation for opposing the man-made State of Israel.

I have no opposition to the state of Israel in its current location but I do have some grave misgivings on the continued expansion of its borders as well as the many people that have been uprooted from their family homes, had those homes either confiscated and inhabited by others or destroyed for development. For those people my heart goes to.

Yes, I am fine with leaving Israel where it is even though I think it was a very grave mistake to install it there (which is what I meant by 'spilt milk').
After all,
No Israeli citizens who are there now ...had any agency in the way it came about.
BUT
My reservations are these:

* I worry that the Palestinians will keep getting screwed.

*I worry that Israel will be dependent on the US INTO INFINITE TIME for the resources to maintain a State which is surrounded by people who want it destroyed.

 

[valgal]

Yes and the reason the US will be co dependent with Israel is because too many people in this country who vote seriously believe that the policy of Israel is justified by their scriptures.

Yet they do not consider the words or examples of Jesus when it comes to what is being done to the Palestinian people.

It makes a gal wonder.

 

[Phoenix68]

Occupying? Are you serious? Tell me, do you remember how was it that Israel came to find themselves on that land in the first place?

.

.​

 

[Stalin]

The author is clearly no more than an anti semite.

Old reliable ..the anti-semite trope...

Sadly, Palestinians are MORE semitic than most israelis...

Your predictable post was well ridiculed by me 12 years ago

The Conservative Guide to criticism of Israel

1) Accuse your opponent of anti-semitism. This works most of the time. Once in a while you will come across some smart-aleck who has found what a semite actually is and will tell you that Palestinians are MORE semitic than jews. In this case, move to 2) 2) Accuse your opponent of being a...

www.houseofpolitics.com

Comrade Stalin
Preparing for the Apocalypse

 

[mark francis]

.

.​

Let's see. Were the Jews the first humans on earth to inhabit the land or were the Palestinians the first in human history to squat on the land? Or does the land actually belong to Neandertals or to Darwininian humanapes?

 

[SamInAZ]

 

[Boris Norris]

Let's see. Were the Jews the first humans on earth to inhabit the land or were the Palestinians the first in human history to squat on the land? Or does the land actually belong to Neandertals or to Darwininian humanapes?

As a believer you should know the Jews have occupied that land for three thousand years.
I think that gives them title to it.

The Hamas Palestinians are currently the invaders and should and will be crushed.

 

[Phoenix68]

Occupying? Are you serious? Tell me, doyou remember how was it that Israel came to find themselves on that land in the first place?

And arabs living in Israel, have more rights than they would have living in their respective countries.

The author is clearly no more than an anti semite.

.
UN Rapporteur Compares Israel To Apartheid South Africa
February 27, 2007
.
.
Blood and Oil - A Middle East Primer
.​

"The opening up of Palestine to Jewish settlements, meanwhile, served imperial strategy by furthering division in the region and by establishing a beachhead for British interests."

.​

 

[Phoenix68]

As a believer you should know the Jews have occupied that land for three thousand years.

.

.....and???
.​

10/30/20000 - "As fighting continues in the Middle East, a new genetic study shows that many Arabs and Jews are closely related. More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years."

.​

 

[Gabriel_Bell]

The whole idea that there is an entity called "God" that created the entire universe just to provide a place for humans is rather absurd. It is even more absurd to assume that this character actually has a tribe of favorite humans that he has rewarded with real estate.

What the Israelis are doing in Gaza is an atrocity and it must stop NOW.
The US should withdraw all aid and arms from Israel, as American taxpayers should be forced to pay for any more atrocities.

 

[mark francis]

The whole idea that there is an entity called "God" that created the entire universe just to provide a place for humans is rather absurd. It is even more absurd to assume that this character actually has a tribe of favorite humans that he has rewarded with real estate.

What the Israelis are doing in Gaza is an atrocity and it must stop NOW.
The US should withdraw all aid and arms from Israel, as American taxpayers should be forced to pay for any more atrocities.

Kicking the Jews off their land because of worldwide hatred toward Jews is evil, whether morons around the world understand that fact or not.

 

[Stalin]

how can anyone possibly hate the jews ?

especially as they have been so kind and gentle towards the palestinian people

not

comrade stalin
gaza

 

[mark francis]

how can anyone possibly hate the jews ?

especially as they have been so kind and gentle towards the palestinian people

not

comrade stalin
gaza

Hatred for fellow humans can be traced all the way back to Adam and his sons Cain and Able. Jewish babies did not deserve to be murdered by Palestinian terrorists.