Libs admit capitalism works!

[Pandora]

Before you go on about the "billions in corporate welfare", you might want to consider the HUNDREDS of billions that are going to real welfare, to support people who simply refuse to even attempt to support themselves. At least the corporations provide products, services, jobs, and more importantly, tax dollars to the treasury by hiring and paying their employees, contractors, and sub-contractors. Would it be fair to presume that you also believe that the "evil oil companies" are "screwing" us? Before you answer that one, be sure to check your 401K, as well as any other stock holdings you may have to be sure that you're not holding any oil stocks.

I work for the evil school district full of evil Lib’s and we all made a killing on our retirement plans all because of dirty oil!

Just kidding, I mean I did make a good profit this year, but the oil companies are not evil and oil is not “very” dirty

 

[Andy]

name a True Capitalist...one that wants everything private. its not many. Most want and believe in Capitalism, but don't agree to what exeunt. Private Military? I don't see any Republicans for that. Private Roads only? Not many for that....its a scale. And on issues like Health care the Private capitalist system Clearly is Failing on a key issue for Americanised if they can't fix it , then its time to let someone else try. Just like if the government can't run something, they often turn to privatizing it later.

I see the whole US system as no longer any type of real Free market in almost any feild, its a rich mans playground where the ideas of most mean nothing. Free markets only work when they are done openly, Fairly, and honestly. American Companies today lack all of those in great amounts.

Ah... you know I hadn't thought of that, but I'm not even sure if the military would be included. Ownership of means of productions. What product does the military produce exactly?

That said, I'm a constitutionalist. Therefore the military is the single sole duty of the federal government. So I am ok with it being government controlled. It's everything else in the country I'm against being under government control.

Roads are a product, not a means of production. Ownership of the product is not in question. It's the private corporations that build the roads, that is capitalism.

The government can't run anything. I have yet to see a single instance where government running X business was able to do so well.

Here's my problem. Every single time government tries to run something, the predictable, inevitable failure comes. Yet... here we are thinking 'it might work this time!'... why? Why do you think it will work, when it never has in the history of the planet?

Now granted you do have a point. Why is it, that in some cases that market seems stacked? I would suggest to you, it isn't the free market that's failed, but rather the government's intrusion into the market.

Why prior to WW2 was their dozens of independent car manufactures, and after there is 6 or less? Answer, government regulations. Today it's nearly impossible to start a business making cars in the US. So much regulations, so much red tape, so much restrictions and mandates... a small independent manufacture doesn't stand a chance. So we have the 'big three' who's only competition is from foreign companies who's native governments support them instead of hinder them.

I suggest the Health Care industry is the same. There is so many regulations, so much red type, so much government control in the health care industry now, that we are paying the prices.

When nationalized health care is passed, it will be the same boondoggle it is everywhere else it's tried, and end up like MassHealth.

 

[Andy]

What about the billions in corporate welfare US companies receive every year? That's certainly not an example of true capitalism either, yet I don't hear a peep out of you, or Libs, about that.

Are you kidding? I've been harping about corporations getting money from the government on this forum for ages, many times a week normally. I likely have complained about that more than most liberals have.

The problem is.... do you know what corporation welfare is yourself? Let me ask you this: In another thread a person here posted that the federal government should hand out more money for research of (and I quote) "Green Alternative Energy Research".

Do you agree? What do you think that is? That's corporate welfare.

When the Electric car deal of the late 90s came around, that they made that lame movie 'who killed the electric car?', our government gave GM, millions to research batteries for electric cars. Do you agree with funding research to make alternative fuel cars? What do you think that is? It's corporate welfare for GM.

What do you think Ethanol subsidies are? What do you think Hydrogen Car funding is? Remember the 'freedom car'?

Bottom line: Liberals complain about corporate welfare while they support it and pass it. The rest of us are actually against it. You don't see conservatives asking for government hand outs to corporations. At least you won't see this one.

 

[Andy]

Before you go on about the "billions in corporate welfare", you might want to consider the HUNDREDS of billions that are going to real welfare, to support people who simply refuse to even attempt to support themselves. At least the corporations provide products, services, jobs, and more importantly, tax dollars to the treasury by hiring and paying their employees, contractors, and sub-contractors. Would it be fair to presume that you also believe that the "evil oil companies" are "screwing" us? Before you answer that one, be sure to check your 401K, as well as any other stock holdings you may have to be sure that you're not holding any oil stocks.

Most of the people at my work have stock in oil companies through their 401K. They were joking about how those blasted corps should be shot. Then I got the investment hand out, and pointed out they were making good money off the evil corps. Pretty funny to see the look on their faces.

 

[Pandora]

Ah... you know I hadn't thought of that, but I'm not even sure if the military would be included. Ownership of means of productions. What product does the military produce exactly?

That said, I'm a constitutionalist. Therefore the military is the single sole duty of the federal government. So I am ok with it being government controlled. It's everything else in the country I'm against being under government control.

Roads are a product, not a means of production. Ownership of the product is not in question. It's the private corporations that build the roads, that is capitalism.

The government can't run anything. I have yet to see a single instance where government running X business was able to do so well.

Here's my problem. Every single time government tries to run something, the predictable, inevitable failure comes. Yet... here we are thinking 'it might work this time!'... why? Why do you think it will work, when it never has in the history of the planet?

Now granted you do have a point. Why is it, that in some cases that market seems stacked? I would suggest to you, it isn't the free market that's failed, but rather the government's intrusion into the market.

Why prior to WW2 was their dozens of independent car manufactures, and after there is 6 or less? Answer, government regulations. Today it's nearly impossible to start a business making cars in the US. So much regulations, so much red tape, so much restrictions and mandates... a small independent manufacture doesn't stand a chance. So we have the 'big three' who's only competition is from foreign companies who's native governments support them instead of hinder them.

I suggest the Health Care industry is the same. There is so many regulations, so much red type, so much government control in the health care industry now, that we are paying the prices.

When nationalized health care is passed, it will be the same boondoggle it is everywhere else it's tried, and end up like MassHealth.

I agree with you Andy. I tried to reply but I could not get my words to come out in a way that anyone could understand. You wrote much of what I was thinking. Thanks

 

[9sublime]

Then I would not call you a classic liberal, I can not speak for Libsmasher though

I'm pretty sure a classic liberal would believe in free market capitalism.