Obamacare hits the Supreme Court today: What will the Justices rule on?

[Little-Acorn]

The leftists are insisting that Congress has the power to force people to buy insurance, whether they want it or not, because the Constitution says that Congress has the power to regulate commerce between the states.

The reason the Constitution says that, is because before the Constitution was written we had the Articles of Confederation, which did NOT say that.

And states were imposing taxes and duties on anything that crossed their borders. A guy in New York trying to sell things to people in other states, had to worry about tax rates being charged in every state he was selling to... no two of which were the same. And if he was selling to people in Georgia, he might have to ship his goods through half a dozen other states to get there... each of which would charge its duties for the goods. It was a huge mess.

So when the Constitution was written, they gave the Fed govt the power to regulate this... and effectively took that power AWAY from the individual states.

But now we have the big-government advocates telling us that, when the Founders wrote that phrase and the people ratified it, they intended to give the Fed govt the power to force each of us to buy things whether we wanted to or not.

It's one of the more bizarre "interpretations" of the Commerce clause, that has ever come along. And now the Supreme Court will decide if they agree with the Big Govt advocates.

 

[steveox]

Well, If Cheneys advisors told his doctors wait until after Supreme court decides Obamacare republicans might had won the argument. But noooo Docs had to get him a new heart when Obama is the be decided in 4 days. You watch 5-4 in favor of Obamacare.

 

[dogtowner]

Well, If Cheneys advisors told his doctors wait until after Supreme court decides Obamacare republicans might had won the argument. But noooo Docs had to get him a new heart when Obama is the be decided in 4 days. You watch 5-4 in favor of Obamacare.

firstly, the SCOTUS will not rule on the matter til summer.
second, heart transplants happen quickly and with little to no notice as spare hearts do not keep for more than hours.
and how you think there is any connection between the two is beyond me.

 

[Arbopa]

If the court rules that the mandate is Constitutional, then there is no denying that America based on the Constitution, is DEAD. We are at that point to far gone to ever return to the Constitution or it's intent.

 

[Arbopa]

Nope theyre not real life. But they portry what really goes on in the Real world. Im sure you saw the movie Colors right? Now tell me cops arent really like that?

I just wanted to quote this for the compete fantasy land sort of statement that it is.

No wonder it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a rational discussion with the extreme left.

 

[Little-Acorn]

On this first of three days or oral arguments before the Supreme Court, the Obamacare lawyers appear to be taking a major beating from liberal and conservative USSC justices alike, over the Obamacare mandate. And they weren't even supposed to be dicussing the mandate at all, on this first day!

You may recall that, back before it was passed, the leftists were insisting that Obamacare would not introduce any new taxes. When people asked about these fines for nonparticipation, the leftists hastily assured everybody they were a penalty, not a tax. They repeated over and over that there were no new taxes in Obamacare. And they even wrote the bill that way, calling them "penalties", never "taxes". They managed to get just enough votes in Congress by persuading a few representatives and Senators that these were not, repeat not, taxes. The Congressmen believed them, and voted Yes.

Fast forward to 201x, and the first lawsuits hitting the courts. Nearly every state had people screaming about this unconstitutional program, and particularly about the mandate which forced you to either join or pay these penalties. A lot of people protested that the govt had no right to force people to buy insurance that way, or penalize them for NOT doing so.

The same leftists that assured us these were penalties (not taxes), now did a complete 180 and announced in court that they were taxes, not penalties. And since Congress clearly has the power to lay and collect taxes, Obamacare was completely constitutional, they told us (now). And they even used that same line in court, telling the District Court of Nothern Florida that Obamacare was constitutional because all these things were taxes, not penalties.

But then reality reared its ugly head. To the leftists' dismay, Judge Vinson actually read the law he was being asked to approve. And he noticed that, in stark contrasts to the leftists' assurance that Obamacare's fines were a "tax", they were described over and over in the law as "penalties". Judge Vinson insensitively declined to be persuaded by the leftists' pleas, and pointed out that while their pleas may be constitutional, the written law was not. And he struck down the mandate. (And also the rest of the scheme).

Today, those same leftists are trying to make the same arguments before the Supreme Court. And they seem to getting no farther with the Supremes, than they did with Judge Vinson. Apparently the Supremes also read the actual law. How rude of them. The Supreme Court justices (both the conservatives and the leftist justices) are giving the leftists' lawyers a pretty good beating over this point. Justice Alito even remarked to one of them, "General Verrilli, today you are arguing that the penalty is not a tax. Tomorrow you are going to be back and you will be arguing that the penalty is a tax. Has the Court ever held that something that is a tax for purposes of the taxing power under the Constitution is not a tax under the Anti-Injunction Act?"

It's gotten so crazy, that the leftist lawyers started twisting themselves into pretzel shapes, trying to have it both ways. One of them even started referring to the penalties as "tax penalties" at times, and "penalty taxes" at other times. I wish I were there to see it - it's getting to be a real three-ring circus in there.

And all this is BEFORE they are scheduled to discuss the mandate at all - that comes tomorrow!

 

[Arbopa]

I have no doubt the liberal judges will uphold the mandate.

 

[steveox]

I have no doubt the liberal judges will uphold the mandate.

If Dick Cheney would have delayed his Heart Transplant surgery until next week Republicans might have won this battle.

 

[Arbopa]

If Dick Cheney would have delayed his Heart Transplant surgery until next week Republicans might have won this battle.

WTF does that have to do with any of this?

 

[steveox]

WTF does that have to do with any of this?

Cause the Justices will see now just how the wealthy are. The Average person have to wait for decisions from their healthcare provider see if it will cover them. But the wealthy dont need private insurance they just pay it out of their own pockets. You see when you depand on insurance to protect you,,You have to go abide to their policies. Now means they see Cheney advange getting that new heart which the average person has to go though paperwork and other policy B.S theyre gonna go in favor for Obamacare and make sure eveyone has health coverage not just for the wealthy.

 

[dogtowner]

Cause the Justices will see now just how the wealthy are. The Average person have to wait for decisions from their healthcare provider see if it will cover them. But the wealthy dont need private insurance they just pay it out of their own pockets. You see when you depand on insurance to protect you,,You have to go abide to their policies. Now means they see Cheney advange getting that new heart which the average person has to go though paperwork and other policy B.S theyre gonna go in favor for Obamacare and make sure eveyone has health coverage not just for the wealthy.

no, they will look at whether the thing is constitutional or not, at least 5 of them.

 

[Cruella]

If the court rules that the mandate is Constitutional, then there is no denying that America based on the Constitution, is DEAD. We are at that point to far gone to ever return to the Constitution or it's intent.

You've got that right. If they can force someone to buy insurance they don't want, then just imagine what else they could force you to buy after that. Could they force markets to only sell food they deem healthy?
(Don't forget, they still haven't finished writing the healthcare bill.)

Once this has set precedence, what about all those Volts at Government Mortors that haven't sold?

 

[steveox]

no, they will look at whether the thing is constitutional or not, at least 5 of them.

Well Justice Anthony Kennedy is a Moderate. He will vote in favor of Obamacare because what he saw Dick Cheney did.

 

[dogtowner]

Well Justice Anthony Kennedy is a Moderate. He will vote in favor of Obamacare because what he saw Dick Cheney did.

uh, no. they've seen rich people before and is has zero bearing on the matter. even the liberals will not care about Cheney as their only int4erest is in supporting the dem administration and the law half of them worked on in one way or another.

this wealth envy of yours is wasted effort steve.

 

[Arbopa]

From a friend of mine that is a Doctor:

"So, my question to you all is this: if some aspect of your jobs required (not volunteer) you to provide your time, skill and labor upon demand without remuneration (or forced you to accept reimbursement so low that it didn't even remotely cover your costs) or face the penalty of law, how would you respond? How would this work if we were talking about a food store, or a clothing store, or any other service (plummets, hvac guys, builders)? After all, food, clothing, housing and heat are all 'required' and necessary...?"

A very valid point of course. But a view many people do not look at when thinking about governments involvement in health care.