Premiums up, profits up, employers paying the tab

[dogtowner]

so you have a few hours to live...and they say we can maybe save but it will cost you a million bucks...or let you go..

and you think the goverment is why this is not a free market choice?

free market does not mean at no cost to you.
and if the prospects are only a "maybe" only an idiot would jump on it.

 

[dogtowner]

its like saying a guy with 10 DWI's still can get auto Insurance....it will just cost a ton more and only a few may take him....If you got DWI's at random and not threw your choice and they can be passed down from your parents.

DWIs come under criminal code, may want a better example.

 

[PLC1]

DWIs come under criminal code, may want a better example.

Auto insurance is a poor example anyway.

The insurance that is required is liability. No one has to have insurance to cover their own losses.

free market does not mean at no cost to you.

Of course not.

There is no such thing as free medical care, anyway. The task is to control costs so that we can afford it. Right now, we're rapidly developing a system that is unaffordable not only to some individuals, but to the country as a whole.

 

[dogtowner]

I didn't suggest it would be cheap, either. In fact, I suggested that it would not be available at all.

I could be wrong, of course, and coverage could be available at a cost of twice the individual's net income.

The bottom line is that, in a totally unregulated market, we'd see:

companies competing for the cheapest demographic, while refusing to cover the most expensive.

there are always niche providers

"remedies" being sold to the public with no proof that they are either safe or effective.

unrelated to state insurance regulations, FDA controlled.

Policies being sold that really don't cover any likely expenses.

its not illegal to be foolhardy

Companies going out of business as soon as the cost of paying medical bills got too high, simply leaving the patients and providers high and dry.

Like that can't happen today ?

he current scenario is not really a solution, either.

You could simply pay the fine, of course, but it would be foolish in the extreme to do so. Once you have a claim, insurance is going to be a lot more expensive.

nope, its regulated dontchaknow !

 

[dogtowner]

There is no such thing as free medical care, anyway. The task is to control costs so that we can afford it. Right now, we're rapidly developing a system that is unaffordable not only to some individuals, but to the country as a whole.

Agreed. Sadly the ACA does nothing to help. More sadly the administration is aware of some of the things that would help and refuses to pursue them as it would impact those that bankrolled his campaigns.

 

[PLC1]

there are always niche providers

not if they don't make a profit, there won't be.

unrelated to state insurance regulations, FDA controlled.

so, some regulation is OK?

its not illegal to be foolhardy

or to make a profit by selling a bogus product, at least in an unregulated market.

Like that can't happen today ?

Not likely. When has an insurer ever simply gone bankrupt and left the patients and providers with nothing?

nope, its regulated dontchaknow !

The cost is not regulated, nor can it be. Price controls aren't going to work.

 

[dogtowner]

not if they don't make a profit, there won't be.

who says you can't make a profit ?

so, some regulation is OK?

I was referencing INSURANCE regulation as you know.

or to make a profit by selling a bogus product, at least in an unregulated market.

they do it in regulated markets now, whats the point ?

Not likely. When has an insurer ever simply gone bankrupt and left the patients and providers with nothing?

here are some in even more heavily regulated insurance compsnies

The cost is not regulated, nor can it be. Price controls aren't going to work.

the cost of the public option will be AND PRICED TO SELL !

 

[Dr.Who]

Job-based health insurance premiums rise sharply




This has been going on for years. The costs leveled out during the past five years or so, but the cost has roughly doubled in the last decade.

The impact of costs like this on employment are obvious.

Countdown to blame "Obamacare"..4, 3, 2, 1...

Yes it is countdown to obamacare. A big part of he rising costs are due to obamacare. Your own statement supports that - costs have been leveling out but now they are rising. The thing that is a shame is that your statement says the cost doubled in the last decade which implies that there was a gradual doubling. The reality is that the costs were not rising as much and only since obamacare countdown have the costs really risen.

 

[Dr.Who]

costs up...profits up...hmm where could the money be going...hmmmmm

Well I read the whole article, did you? It said in a variety of places that the premiums were going up to pay upcoming costs.

That is how insurance works after all, premiums are collected to pay for future expenses. Unlike certain ponzi schemes we know about.

whats sad is republicans think health care is ever a free market..

That is so factually untrue as to be a gross distortion.

 

[Dr.Who]

How would you envision health care in a totally free market, no regulations, no government "interference", just private contracts between the patient and providers?

How would that work out, do you think?

No one wants a totally free market. Virtually all of us want appropriate laws to stop abuse and fraud and other harmful activities.

 

[Dr.Who]

Biggest difference is you would be free to buy the coverage YOU want as opposed to what your state's insurance commissioner requires. Single males would not have to buy OBGYN coverage for example. This alone would allow a NY family of four to get Wisconsin's 5k plan as opposed to the 12k it costs in NY.

What you say is true but you fell into his strawman argument.

 

[Dr.Who]

So, everyone would be free to purchase an individual plan, or perhaps to opt to pay as they go. That would no doubt be less expensive than what we have, and looks good on the surface.

So, what happens when an individual gets a long term illness, and his company drops him?

Yes that would be less expensive.

Did his contract spell out that he would be dropped if he ever got a long term illness?

When he was dropped would it be true that the company harmed him and that legal action should be taken against that company?

 

[Dr.Who]

No one is going to sell coverage that "accommodates that scenario," as it would be unprofitable. People with ongoing illnesses can't get individual coverage now, nor would they with an unregulated market. The current option is to keep a job with an employer with group insurance, or to hope you live to 65 and get on Medicare.

That is factually untrue.

Long term care insurance is quite common. back in the day before insurance covered eyeglasses and a yearly physical all it covered were the more catastrophic and long term illnesses - that is a reason insurance was invented.

 

[Dr.Who]

I did not suggest it would be cheap but if companies are free to make their own plans anything is possible. People with horrible driving records can still get insurance though its costly, its possible.
.

Most of the cost of your premiums goes to cover the routine stuff. only a tiny percent goes to cover the catastrophic stuff.

Since long term care is covered now the costs of premiums would not be higher to cover long term care.

 

[dogtowner]

No one wants a totally free market. Virtually all of us want appropriate laws to stop abuse and fraud and other harmful activities.

Not sure what abuse is for you but fraud is easily covered by the judicial system. I'd love totally free markets.