Socialized Medicine

[Gipper]

It is a dismal failure wherever it is IMPOSED. Yet, liberals want it imposed in the USA. Why? Liberals are not dumb. They really want socialism so that all Americans are at their mercy. They know it is a terrible system, but control and profits are their motivation.

Check this out. This is something you will NEVER see reported in the lib US MSM.

Neglected by 'lazy' nurses, man, 22, dying of thirst rang the police to beg for water

By Emily Andrews

A man of 22 died in agony of dehydration after three days in a leading teaching hospital.

Kane Gorny was so desperate for a drink that he rang police to beg for their help.

They arrived on the ward only to be told by doctors that everything was under control.

The next day his mother Rita Cronin found him delirious and he died within hours.

She said nurses had failed to give him vital drugs which controlled fluid levels in his body. 'He was totally dependent on the nurses to help him and they totally betrayed him.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...irst-rang-police-beg-water.html#ixzz0hRvv012x

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ny-22-dying-thirst-rang-police-beg-water.html

 

[Bunz]

Its always amusing when a a conservative takes a single horror story from overseas as somehow a reason we should not have universal coverage and it is nothing but a dirty rotten stinking red herring.
Ill post this one as a rebuttal.
http://www.adn.com/2009/12/09/1048813/victim-of-service-high-stabbing.html
This teenage girl was stabbed 29 times and her life was saved by the good ole Indian Health Service. At a rate much cheaper to all sides than if she would have been otherwise uninsured.

Ill ask an open question to any conservative, what is your reaction to knowing that Sarah "death panel" Palin has Bristol and Tripp getting thier medical care at the same socialized location?

 

[Bunz]

It is a dismal failure wherever it is IMPOSED.

In the numerous trips I have made to Australia, they appear to be very content in thier health system. I also know lots of Canadians, two of them live and work in Alaska, and have for long time, but maintain a residence in Canada and still pay taxes in Canada to maintain thier health care.

Yet, liberals want it imposed in the USA. Why? Liberals are not dumb. They really want socialism so that all Americans are at their mercy. They know it is a terrible system, but control and profits are their motivation.

This simply isnt true. It is ensuring that people can get medical care they need without being screwed over by an insurance company or being forced into bankruptcy because of an injury or other medical condition.

Check this out. This is something you will NEVER see reported in the lib US MSM.

Then why isnt Fox reporting it?

 

[Gipper]

You say a single incident....

I have posted many horror stories on the failures of European and Canadian socialized medicine here at the HOP. I have also posted the horrors of medical care on American Indian reservations here.

Regarding FOX, they do report on this stuff on occasion, but there are so many, one can't expect them to report every one. But one thing is for certain, the lib MSM will NEVER report these things and this is why libs like you are UNINFORMED.

And, if one knows something is unworkable and will harm the people yet continues to promote it, either one is dumb or one has ulterior motives.

Now, which is it for you?

 

[Gipper]

The Great Thomas Sowell says it best...

CAUTION - Libs the truth may blow your mind...

Health care debate sounds like 'Alice in Wonderland'

One of the biggest reasons for higher medical costs is that somebody else is paying those costs, whether an insurance company or the government. What is the politicians' answer? To have more costs paid by insurance companies and the government.
Money is just one of the costs of people seeking more medical care than they would if they were paying for it with their own money. Both waiting lines and waiting lists grow longer when people with sniffles and minor skin rashes take up the time of doctors, while people with cancer are waiting.
One of the big costs that have actually forced some hospitals to close is the federal mandate that hospitals treat everyone who comes to an emergency room, whether they pay or not. But those who talk about "bringing down the cost of medical care" are not about to repeal that mandate. Often they want to add more mandates.

Similarly, if it costs a billion dollars to create one new pharmaceutical drug, then either we are going to pay the billion dollars or we are not going to keep on getting new pharmaceutical drugs produced. There is no free lunch.

Virtually everything that is proposed by those who are talking about bringing down the costs of medical care will in fact raise those costs. Mandates on insurance companies? Why are insurance companies not already doing those things that new mandates would require? Because those things raise costs by an amount that people are unwilling to pay to get those benefits.

If not, it would be a slam dunk for the insurance companies to add those benefits to the policies and raise the premiums to cover them. What politicians want to do is look good by imposing mandates, and then let the insurance companies look bad by raising the premiums to cover the additional costs.

It is a great political game, but it does nothing to lower medical costs.

Politicians who want a government monopoly on health insurance can easily get it, just by making it impossible for private insurance companies to charge enough to cover the costs mandated by politicians. The "public option" will then be the only option -- which is to say, we will no longer have any real option.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100307...unds-like--Alice-in-Wonderland-#ixzz0hUmpBALm

 

[Gipper]

and this from The Great Charles Krauthammer...

Allow me to demystify. Imagine a bill granting every American a free federally delivered ice cream every Sunday morning. Provision 2: steak on Monday, also home delivered. Provision 3: A dozen red roses every Tuesday. You get the idea. Would each individual provision be popular in the polls? Of course.

However (life is a vale of howevers), suppose these provisions were bundled into a bill that also spelled out how the goodies are to be paid for and managed -- say, half a trillion dollars in new taxes, half a trillion in Medicare cuts (cuts not to keep Medicare solvent but to pay for the ice cream, steak and flowers), 118 new boards and commissions to administer the bounty-giving, and government regulation dictating, for example, how your steak was to be cooked. How do you think this would poll?

Perhaps something like 3-1 against, which is what the latest CNN poll shows is the citizenry's feeling about the current Democratic health care bills.

Obama has chosen differently, however. The time for debate is over, declared the nation's seminar leader in chief. The man who vowed to undo Washington's wicked ways has directed the Congress to ram Obamacare through, by one vote if necessary, under the parliamentary device of "budget reconciliation." The man who ran as a post-partisan is determined to remake a sixth of the U.S. economy despite the absence of support from a single Republican in either house, the first time anything of this size and scope has been enacted by pure party-line vote.

Surprised? You can only be disillusioned if you were once illusioned.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100307...rd-on-health-reform--regardless#ixzz0hUoL42zZ

Do liberals really believe in illusions? Silly question.

 

[top gun]

Conservatives are big on people not having coverage.

They aren't very honest and hide from the fact that right now as we speak the first $1000 every single year that each person with insurance pays with his or her insurance premiums... that goes directly to indigent (people without insurance) care to reimburse hospitals.

Then there's the obstructionist smoke screen trying hard to make insurance giants more money at the expense of the people that government run healthcare isn't as good. Let's see what people with it ACTUALLY THINK...

First up, this Harris-Decima scientific poll from July 5th gives an even brighter picture than McClatchy's effort, which as it relates to comparisons gives us this:

By an overwhelming margin, Canadians prefer the Canadian health care system to the American one. Overall, 82% said they preferred the Canadian system, fully ten times the number who said the American system is superior (8%).

Daniel De Groot :: Canadians Love Their Health Care and Want it to be Even More Socialized

Now granted one might expect this poll is skewed a bit by patriotism and the natural inkling to prefer the safe and familiar to that other horrid system over the border. For contrast, Harvard asked Americans some similar questions in spring 2008, and got this:


March 20 (Bloomberg) -- The majority of Americans say U.S. private health care may not be better than national systems in Canada, France and the U.K., according to a poll by the Harvard School of Public Health.
The survey, co-sponsored with Harris Interactive Inc., a Rochester, New York, research and polling company, found that 45 percent of Americans thought the U.S. medical system generally was the best. The remaining 54 percent either didn't know or thought other countries' systems were better.

Then we could go to that terrible scary thing called Medicare. People hate Medicare it's terrible healthcare because it's completely 100% a government program......... oh wait......... senior citizens LOVE MEDICARE! They would riot in the streets if ANYONE EVER tried to take away their beloved MEDICARE!

Let's just put it this way and front out the Conservative lie machine... Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Abraham Lincoln

 

[Gipper]

George Will destroys a DF lib on ABC's This Week...

Very good...

George Will Schools Reich On Healthcare and Today's Liberalism

For the second week in a row George Will gave a much-needed education to one of the media's most beloved liberal economists.

During the Roundtable segment of Sunday's "This Week," Berkeley professor Robert Reich falsely claimed health insurance companies are exhibiting huge profits: "That is money directly out of the pockets of Americans."

Will countered, "[C]onfiscate all the profits of all the health insurance companies, with those profits you could finance our healthcare for 48 hours."

Reich arrogantly responded, "[R]ecipients of health insurance don't know what they are buying very often. Until there are common standards, minimal standards, then people are going to be taken."

This nicely set Will up to drive the ball out of the park, "There you have the premise of this legislation and the core of today's liberalism: the American people are such dopes they can't be counted upon to buy their own insurance" (video embedded below the fold with transcript):

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...ealthcare-and-todays-liberalism#ixzz0hWyp3Pvo

 

[samsara15]

It is a dismal failure wherever it is IMPOSED. Yet, liberals want it imposed in the USA. Why? Liberals are not dumb. They really want socialism so that all Americans are at their mercy. They know it is a terrible system, but control and profits are their motivation.

Check this out. This is something you will NEVER see reported in the lib US MSM.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ny-22-dying-thirst-rang-police-beg-water.html

Our present medical system is rapidly falling apart, in case you never noticed. Becoming more and more unaffordable due to out of control increases in costs. The failures of socialized medicine in many other nations are greatly distorted and exaggerated. Never mind however, anything that gives Conservatives a reason to whine 'the sky is falling' is too good for them to miss.

 

[top gun]

Our present medical system is rapidly falling apart, in case you never noticed. Becoming more and more unaffordable due to out of control increases in costs. The failures of socialized medicine in many other nations are greatly distorted and exaggerated. Never mind however, anything that gives Conservatives a reason to whine 'the sky is falling' is too good for them to miss.

Without a doubt you are correct my friend!

This is a rather good explanation of the true choices...

 

[Gipper]

Our present medical system is rapidly falling apart, in case you never noticed. Becoming more and more unaffordable due to out of control increases in costs.

So, lets socialize it and make it even worse.

I know its crazy, but it makes sense to the liberal minded.

 

[AgainstTheMachine]

Here is a fun twist of fate ....

Fed's say employer should provide insurance?

... a local company has been changing insurance on an annual basis under the guise of saving money.

this year they are starting an insurance policy that will cost a person $150.00 a week (company picks up the other $150.00 a week)

$150.00 a week times 52 weeks equals $7,800.00 a year (for half the cost of GROUP insurance)

If you use this insurance - it has a $5,000.00 deductible

PLUS ... being a 20/80 policy on top of that - the covered party gets to pay 20% of the bill along with the $12,800.00 for the year.

... and since they claim the bill will save us ... who can provide the proof that it REALLY WILL?

All this stunt has done is destroy the Republic even more ...

 

[Here We Go]

The high cost of medicine and hospital bills should be looked at. They need to tell us in detail what constitutes exorbitant prices on their lists of charges. Come on, it is ridiculous what they charge for a Q-Tip for instance. Is anybody questioning this absurdity? If they charged what they should be charging that would cut down on the cost of insurance.

 

[AgainstTheMachine]

The high cost of medicine and hospital bills should be looked at. They need to tell us in detail what constitutes exorbitant prices on their lists of charges. Come on, it is ridiculous what they charge for a Q-Tip for instance. Is anybody questioning this absurdity? If they charged what they should be charging that would cut down on the cost of insurance.

Well Said!!

 

[Bunz]

The high cost of medicine and hospital bills should be looked at.

They have, and numerous times and it is ongoing. Billing codes and fees are updated etc, often coming from HHS, but also insurance companies. But there are huge variances even for simple geography.

They need to tell us in detail what constitutes exorbitant prices on their lists of charges. Come on, it is ridiculous what they charge for a Q-Tip for instance.

See this is part of the conundrum. There is a portion of American society who thinks that not being able to be refused from the ER somehow constitutes real health care. One needs to think of the ER as the hotel mini-fridge. Due to the nature of the system, that q-tip went from pennies to 5 bucks. If I take my minor cut to a UR neighborhood clinic(if one exists) getting a stitch or lets say 3 stiches might cost a few hundred bucks cash and less with insurance(or not because in most cases the deductible is much more than a few hundred bucks).
Now if I go to the ER, the visit alone to the ER will probably cost $500 minimum just to see a provider. The facility costs are quite high. Heaven forbid you have to spend the night! This does not include being billed for every single little thing that is possible. Capitalism allows the ace bandage used to wrap an ankle and a pair of crutches, plus all of the over the counter pain killer and ice packs id ever need where I can buy it at walgreens for $75 but the hospital gives that same little package to you for at minimum triple the price. Because they have to add in the labor costs, facility costs, professional costs, overhead and then profit.

Is anybody questioning this absurdity? If they charged what they should be charging that would cut down on the cost of insurance.

Well that doesnt sound very capitalist to me.
The answer is yes there are a lot of people questioning it. They are the same ones that voted to elect the Democrats to national power and who have now passed legislation that is designed to address these issues. Now if it actually does that, I at this point dont know.