The difference between socialism and capitalism in one photo

The economy of the puppet state of Occupied Korea ( usually referred to as South Korea ) was financed and built by US gifts and loans. 50,000 US troops still occupy the peninsula and, of course, there would be large amounts of atomic weapons held there. Needless to say, when Korea developed it's own atomic weapons, everybody jumped up and down about it, but no word about US atomics there.

Like Cuba, Korea has been subject to sanctions, more or less in accord with US policy of declaring economic warfare against those who do not go along with it's imperialist aims and ambitions.


Comrade Sta Lin

Once again, the bright shining light of your ignorance. :D You purport to be a commie and you don't even know commies. Actually, North Korea has imposed its isolation on itself, with the policy promulgated by Kim Il Sung of Juche, or "self-reliance", which he described as "independence from great powers, a strong military posture, and reliance on Korean national resources." That, plus a nearly pure socialism, is what has caused the backwardness, extreme poverty, and mass starvation in north korea, alleviated only by frequent humanitarian food shipments from advanced capitalist countries.
 
Werbung:
Once again, the bright shining light of your ignorance. :D You purport to be a commie and you don't even know commies. Actually, North Korea has imposed its isolation on itself, with the policy promulgated by Kim Il Sung of Juche, or "self-reliance", which he described as "independence from great powers, a strong military posture, and reliance on Korean national resources." That, plus a nearly pure socialism, is what has caused the backwardness, extreme poverty, and mass starvation in north korea, alleviated only by frequent humanitarian food shipments from advanced capitalist countries.

Once again, as with the Ukraine, a big lie about famines is used to push an imperialist agenda.

When India was a British colony, famines were common; now thanks to socialist policies, it does not have a problem with food, even though the population is far higher.

Ditto China.

I do not think that you are the correct person to lecture me on Juche, providing a simplistic erroneous analysis from a complex situation.

"...After Mao's death, the policies of Maoist autarchic peasant-based socialism were phased out in China. Deng Xiaoping launched the Four Modernizations program in 1978 and opened China to sweeping economic reforms that incorporated elements of the market economy. Deng Xiaoping Theory was officially instituted in the 1980s. Despite relatively cordial Beijing-Pyongyang relations in this period, the North Korean regime was reluctant to adopt the Chinese open-door policy and model of economic modernization, because its leadership feared such reforms would compromise the Juche ideology and result in political destabilization and events similar to the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 (Lee, p. 1998, 1999 ). After the decline and fall of the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc between 1989 and 1991, with the consequent loss of economic aid, North Korea began to undertake cautious, experimental, and selective emulation of the Chinese model.

The Joint Venture Law of 1984 was, however, among the first Deng-inspired North Korean attempts to attract foreign capital within the programmatic orientation of Juche doctrine. This was followed by emulation of the Shenzhen Special Economic Zone. North Korea established its first capitalist SEZ in 1991, the Rajin-Sonbong Economic Special Zone. The 1998 Juche constitution was also written with provisions to defend private property and joint venture enterprises with capitalist countries, making possible the establishment of the Pyongyang-based Research Institute on Capitalism in 2000, and allowing for the price and wage reforms of July 1, 2002. Deng Xiaoping Theory accepts marketization of the Chinese economy as "socialism with Chinese characteristics" or a "socialist market economy," and the North Korean Juche ideology rationalizes such reforms under the concept of "socialism of our style."

...

Since North Koreans with Juche idea of chaju (Independence in politics) and the charip (self-sustenance in the economy) principles, which are the two of the three fundamental principles that Kim Il-sung outlined in 1965, they isolated themselves from rest of the world and hardly opened up for diplomatic relationships with other countries until the pressure that came with the collapse of the Soviet bloc. The charip idea of self-contained economy was unlike other countries that withdrew themselves from the economy of the world. For example, "Albania in the socialist world and Burma in the capitalist world, two countries that "withdrew" to no apparent purpose as their economies idled along or got worse, North Korea never idled but always raced.".[21] The North Koreans withdrew for a purpose of development of their economy and country. By being able to sustain their own economy, they would be independent of other countries and would be self-reliable. However, they had to rely on USSR and China to sustain their livelihood. In 1986, Kim Il-sung set the goal of ten million tons of grain production. Yet the plan failed and they produced only four million tons of grain and the North Korea had to rely on foreign aid to provide them with two million tons of grain. The six million tons of grain they managed to get a hold of was the bare minimum of to feed their population.[22] The economic crisis continued to be visible even in the 1990s. "Most of the blame was attributed not to North Korea's ponderous socialist system but to "the collapse of socialist countries and the socialist market of the world," which "shattered" many of P'yongyang's trade partners and agreements.".[23] The fall of the socialist market and trade partner lead North Korea into a crisis that was not simply manageable with their current system. As result, paradoxical to the Juche philosophy of autarky, North Korea established the Najin-Sonbong free economic and tradezone during the mid-1990s. Investors from firms in Hong Kong, Japan, France, South Korea, and the United States are some of the countries that opened manufacturing facilities in the DPRK. The Shell Oil Corporation (in 1995) is one example of the big firms that invested in this open trade area.[24] Near the parallel, North Korea also opened the city of Kaesong for exports until 2010 when South Korea issued a economic sanction after the sunk South Korean warship incident.[25]

The third principle of the Juche idea, chawi (self-defense in national defense), caused North Korea to spend much of its capitals for military purpose, thus decreasing the amount of capital that can be used for developing economy (it is estimated that 25 percent of the annual budget goes to the military). Kim Jong Il has explicitly expressed his "army first" policies since the mid-1990s.[26]

Although in 1949 common objects such as a pen or a watch was rare in North Korea, by the mid 1960s North Korea's economy grew faster than the South. In 1957-1961, the five year plan placed reconstructing and developing the major industries destroyed by the war on the top of the priority list and placed consumer goods at the bottom of the priorities. This bias toward rebuilding major industries, "combined with unprecedentedly large amounts of aid from the Soviet bloc, pushed the economy forward at world-beating growth rates in the 1950s and 1960s".[27]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche

Comrade Sta Lin
 
"Stalin", I'm tired of you trying to cloak your historical ignorance under large text dumps you found by googling a few key words. :rolleyes: As for china, the disastrous results of maoist economic policies, eg the starvation created by the Great Leap Forward, are well known and not even contested by most liberals. When the chinese adopted large scale capitalist elements into their economy and tossed the Mao book, life got immeasurably better for them.

20th century world history is replete with real-world examples of the wealth and general well-being created by capitalism, and the poverty and starvation created by socialism - another current example is Zimbabwe. The only way anyone could hold your views is by hallucinating away a whole century's experience with both systems - which is apparently what you've done.
 
"Stalin", I'm tired of you trying to cloak your historical ignorance under large text dumps you found by googling a few key words. :rolleyes: As for china, the disastrous results of maoist economic policies, eg the starvation created by the Great Leap Forward, are well known and not even contested by most liberals. When the chinese adopted large scale capitalist elements into their economy and tossed the Mao book, life got immeasurably better for them.

20th century world history is replete with real-world examples of the wealth and general well-being created by capitalism, and the poverty and starvation created by socialism - another current example is Zimbabwe. The only way anyone could hold your views is by hallucinating away a whole century's experience with both systems - which is apparently what you've done.

Rick, here are a few words to describe Stalin:

Cheetos.
Mountain Dew.
X-Men pajamas.
Parent's basement.

Don't waste your time with him.
 
Stalin, I just don't buy into your "commie" schtick anymore. Sorry.

Then do not bother.

You bring little, if nothing to the debate, apart from soundbytes, slogans and ignorance.

When marxists get together, they argue based on facts not doctrine. If you think marxists are rigid thinkers, you haven't been in one of their debates.

At least Rick has a mind, and a sense of logic, plus some historical perspective even if he is a bit light on balance and avoidance of logical fallacy.

Comrade Stalin
 
text dumps you found by googling a few key words.

They are for your edification. There is nothing that I have seen that you have posted about any form of communism or socialism that shows me that you have absorbed more than the standard propaganda model.

I have found that conservatives do not read links - they already know it all.

In future, I will expect you to have read all the relevant books and reports relating to a subject.

Have you read any works by Marx, or Engels or Lenin, or Stalin, or Mao ?

If communism is so bad, how come India, China and Vietnam are going gangbusters and the US and Europe are in the economic toilet ???

Comrade Stalin

Comrade Stalin
 
Anyone seen a night photo of Cuba compared to Haiti recently ?

Comrade Stalin
 
Hes got a point there!

He DOESN'T have a point. :rolleyes: As just about everyone in the world but "Stalin" knows, india's improvements come from jettisoning most of the socialist model that held them back for decades in the post WWII era, and he must be the ONLY person in world that doesn't know that china replaced the economic parts of it's marxism with mostly capitalism over the last 20 years.
 
He DOESN'T have a point. :rolleyes: As just about everyone in the world but "Stalin" knows, india's improvements come from jettisoning most of the socialist model that held them back for decades in the post WWII era, and he must be the ONLY person in world that doesn't know that china replaced the economic parts of it's marxism with mostly capitalism over the last 20 years.

You are winging it, out of your political comfort zone, and, as a consequence, completely wrong, yet again

"..Just as China’s socialist market economy is today dismissed by many in academia and the bourgeois press as a return to capitalism, it is important to recall that Lenin too faced similar criticism during the early years of Soviet power. His New Economic Policy (NEP) was often characterized by critics, both outside and inside the Communist movement, as an abandonment of socialism and Marxist ideology..."

more at http://thesparkjournal.blogspot.com/2008/08/leninist-heritage-of-socialist-market.html

Comrade Stalin
 
india's improvements come from jettisoning most of the socialist model that held them back for decades in the post WWII era

The education system in the historically Marxist state of Kerala, where I lived and studied mrdingam, was so goods at producing educated citizens, that it suffered severe economic problems because their citizens were in great demand all over the world, especially in the Gulf.

The five year plans set up infrastructure to make India self-sufficient and an exporter in agriculture, as well as steel, mining and many other industries. These industries are a majority of GDP.

The service industry such as IT, was small potatoes in 1991, and now makes up 23% of the workforce so your point is moot.

Comrade Stalin
 
You are winging it, out of your political comfort zone, and, as a consequence, completely wrong, yet again

"..Just as China’s socialist market economy is today dismissed by many in academia and the bourgeois press as a return to capitalism, it is important to recall that Lenin too faced similar criticism during the early years of Soviet power. His New Economic Policy (NEP) was often characterized by critics, both outside and inside the Communist movement, as an abandonment of socialism and Marxist ideology..."

more at http://thesparkjournal.blogspot.com/2008/08/leninist-heritage-of-socialist-market.html

Comrade Stalin

Just about every one of your posts practically screams "I don't know what I'm talking about". :D

As everyone who passed world history 101 with at least a "D" knows, the New Economic Policy WAS an introduction (briefly) of all kinds of capitalist elements into the soviet system.

Really, do you EVER tire of making a fool of yourself? How HARD would it be to sit down and read, cover to cover, a world history book and a standard economics book, and know what you're talking about, instead of your endless laughable text dumps from leftwing sites-for-morons? :rolleyes:
 
Werbung:
The education system in the historically Marxist state of Kerala, where I lived and studied mrdingam, was so goods at producing educated citizens, that it suffered severe economic problems because their citizens were in great demand all over the world, especially in the Gulf.

The five year plans set up infrastructure to make India self-sufficient and an exporter in agriculture, as well as steel, mining and many other industries. These industries are a majority of GDP.

The service industry such as IT, was small potatoes in 1991, and now makes up 23% of the workforce so your point is moot.

Comrade Stalin

I've been a lot of places in the world, including the third world, and I was in Mumbai (Bombay) on business for three weeks in 2002. It was absolutely the worst poverty I've ever seen, and people I know who've been there say by comparison with Calcutta it looks like a paradise. I told my boss I was not going back to india because I couldn't handle it psychologically. Decades of socialism produced a nightmare landscape of poverty. You continue to make statements and take positions that turn reality inside out and upside down.
 
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