The Greater Israel Map ; Zoom!

[Untouchable]

At the first time I thought it was a joke!; but it seems a real plan, a special road map, posted in hebrew site:

http://avrom.livejournal.com/116574.html

another quote from a zionist website:

You need this land and it needs you, many of you.
Millions of new Jews pouring into Israel will fill up its empty spaces,
guarantee the retention of all the liberated lands of
Judea, Samaria, Golan, Gaza, and Sinai;
assure a vast Jewish majority; add Western democratic
and technical skills to the land.
Eretz Yisrael will never again be lost to us!
http://ahavat-israel.com/eretz/index.php

another interesting article by John Mitchell Henshaw:

Nearly 34 years ago, an America-firster used The American Mercury magazine to warn of the danger posed by Zionism and its rule of Washington and the Mideast. John Henshaw wrote this article shortly after Israel laid claim to the annexed land during 1967 Arab-Israeli war. This article first appeared in the spring of 1968.

the article:
http://www.mediamonitors.net/johnhenshaw1.html

In other hand, this essay is by Israel Shahak:

The Zionist Plan for the Middle East

Translated and edited by
Israel Shahak

The following essay represents, in my opinion, the accurate and detailed plan of the present Zionist regime (of Sharon and Eitan) for the Middle East which is based on the division of the whole area into small states, and the dissolution of all the existing Arab states. I will comment on the military aspect of this plan in a concluding note. Here I want to draw the attention of the readers to several important points:

1. The idea that all the Arab states should be broken down, by Israel, into small units, occurs again and again in Israeli strategic thinking. For example, Ze'ev Schiff, the military correspondent of Ha'aretz (and probably the most knowledgeable in Israel, on this topic) writes about the "best" that can happen for Israeli interests in Iraq: "The dissolution of Iraq into a Shi'ite state, a Sunni state and the separation of the Kurdish part" (Ha'aretz 6/2/1982). Actually, this aspect of the plan is very old.

2. The strong connection with Neo-Conservative thought in the USA is very prominent, especially in the author's notes. But, while lip service is paid to the idea of the "defense of the West" from Soviet power, the real aim of the author, and of the present Israeli establishment is clear: To make an Imperial Israel into a world power. In other words, the aim of Sharon is to deceive the Americans after he has deceived all the rest.

A complete document:

http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/israel/greater_israel.shtml


What can you expect when you see those real facts; which kind of peace we are involving with?!

what can you expect from a state without boundaries?!

Google earth should be immediately updated!

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Untouchable, eventually you are going to have to post something other than anti-Israel/anti-Jew material. Your presence is welcomed here but not if you're sole purpose is to rail against the "Zionists" day in and day out. Try diversifying a little bit.

 

[Reliant]

what can you expect from a state without boundaries?!

Google earth should be immediately updated!

They have boundaries, they just haven't found them yet.

Don't get me wrong, I believe the Jews should have a homeland and should be treated like everyone else. The problem is Zionism and you will find millions of Jews who will agree that Zionism has done more to hurt the Jewish culture than just about anything else. But the theft of land from your neighbors is completely unacceptable everywhere..... except israel.

Get back to the borders agreed to when Israel was created, do not cross the green line, and if you want to put up an apartheid wall then do it on your own land. Are we asking to much?

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Get back to the borders agreed to when Israel was created, do not cross the green line, and if you want to put up an apartheid wall then do it on your own land. Are we asking to much?

Hey, Israel was perfectly fine with their borders until 6 Arab countries decided to attack the day after Israel was founded. They lost and Israel took some of their land. That's how war works.

Then they cry and beg to get their land back, Israel gives it to them and they go and attack again. 100% of the blame for Israel's land grabs deserves to be placed on the shoulders of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

 

[Untouchable]

Untouchable, eventually you are going to have to post something other than anti-Israel/anti-Jew material. Your presence is welcomed here but not if you're sole purpose is to rail against the "Zionists" day in and day out. Try diversifying a little bit.

OK; I will do

 

[USMC the Almighty]

OK; I will do

Much appreciated.

 

[Reliant]

Hey, Israel was perfectly fine with their borders until 6 Arab countries decided to attack the day after Israel was founded. They lost and Israel took some of their land. That's how war works.

Not since civilization came up with something called the Geneva Conventions. And remember, today it is clear that Israel's future as a Jewish state depends on ending its rule of the occupied territories.

Then they cry and beg to get their land back, Israel gives it to them and they go and attack again. 100% of the blame for Israel's land grabs deserves to be placed on the shoulders of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

Not a chance. The Arab countries in the region can take full responsibility for the plight of the Palestinian refugees, and if Israel wanted a buffer zone then it should be on Arab land. But to steal the land and put up barriers that force farmers to walk miles and miles to tend their crops is just plain offensive. Now that we have got that little tidbit taken care of, do you really think the Middle East will ever reach some sort of normalcy as long as Israel is grabbing privately owned Palestinian land, bulldozing privately owned homes, and murdering unarmed citizens? Not a chance.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

Not since civilization came up with something called the Geneva Conventions. And remember, today it is clear that Israel's future as a Jewish state depends on ending its rule of the occupied territories.

Not a chance. The Arab countries in the region can take full responsibility for the plight of the Palestinian refugees, and if Israel wanted a buffer zone then it should be on Arab land. But to steal the land and put up barriers that force farmers to walk miles and miles to tend their crops is just plain offensive. Now that we have got that little tidbit taken care of, do you really think the Middle East will ever reach some sort of normalcy as long as Israel is grabbing privately owned Palestinian land, bulldozing privately owned homes, and murdering unarmed citizens? Not a chance.

So it's Israel's fault that the Arab countries keep attacking them, despite concession after concession. Any relatively smart person can see that the surroundingArab countries are always trying to accept yesterday's deal.

The Arabs don't like Israel's borders in 1948 and so they attack. Then Israel beats them and take a little land. Then all of the sudden they want to just go back to the pre-invasion boundaries. It's a cycle. In 1967, they want the 1948 treaty that Israel offered. In 1973, they're okay with the 1967 proposal. And on and on.

 

[Reliant]

So it's Israel's fault that the Arab countries keep attacking them, despite concession after concession. Any relatively smart person can see that the surroundingArab countries are always trying to accept yesterday's deal.

And what concessions are you referring to? I see lots of people asking for concessions, but i have yet to see any concessions with any real substance.

The Arabs don't like Israel's borders in 1948 and so they attack. Then Israel beats them and take a little land. Then all of the sudden they want to just go back to the pre-invasion boundaries. It's a cycle. In 1967, they want the 1948 treaty that Israel offered. In 1973, they're okay with the 1967 proposal. And on and on.

Israel has been stealing Palestinian land since 1947. All one needs to do is look at maps to see who has been stealing from whom. Where does it stop, when Israel reaches the Jordan River?

 

[USMC the Almighty]

And what concessions are you referring to? I see lots of people asking for concessions, but i have yet to see any concessions with any real substance.

Such as giving the land back won in a war of Arab aggression. Examples would be turning the Gaza Strip back over to the Palestinians.

Israel has been stealing Palestinian land since 1947. All one needs to do is look at maps to see who has been stealing from whom. Where does it stop, when Israel reaches the Jordan River?

It stops when the Arab countries accept the existence of Israel and decides that they would rather coincide peacefully than launch intifada after intifada with the goal of "pushing the Zionists into the Mediterranean Sea".

 

[Reliant]

Such as giving the land back won in a war of Arab aggression. Examples would be turning the Gaza Strip back over to the Palestinians.

How is giving something back to the rightful owner even remotely considered a "concession"?

It stops when the Arab countries accept the existence of Israel and decides that they would rather coincide peacefully than launch intifada after intifada with the goal of "pushing the Zionists into the Mediterranean Sea".

And how do the Palestinians stop the radicals and fanatics if they have no infrastructure to carry it out? If there was suddenly a crime wave in New York, do you think it would be wise to hold back funds to the ELECTED Government, cut off their water and blockade the ports? Something has to give my friend, and I honestly am starting to believe that as long as Israel is in a struggle, American taxpayers will be forced to give them $billions$ every year. How much incentive do they really have to quit?

 

[USMC the Almighty]

How is giving something back to the rightful owner even remotely considered a "concession"?

Here's how it works:

(1) Israel has land.
(2) Arabs want Israel's land.
(3) Arabs attack Israel for said land.
(4) Israel defeats invading Arabs.
(5) In the process of war, Israel takes a more land.
(6) Arabs jump and scream about Israel taking more land.
(7) HERE'S THE CONCESSION: Israel says it will give land back if Arabs promise not to attack any more.
(8) Arabs say they won't attack any more.
(9) Roughly three years later, Arbas invade Israel again.

Repeat for 59 years and you have the essence of the Israeli-Arab conflict.

And how do the Palestinians stop the radicals and fanatics if they have no infrastructure to carry it out? If there was suddenly a crime wave in New York, do you think it would be wise to hold back funds to the ELECTED Government, cut off their water and blockade the ports?

I don't understand how this is relevant.

 

[Reliant]

You must have missed the Arab initiative, drafted at a March 2002 meeting of the Arab League in Beirut, which calls for the full normalization of ties between Israel and the Arab world in return for a complete Israeli withdrawal from all lands captured in the 1967 Six-Day War.

"The plan, first made public in a February interview with the New York Times, proposes that the Arab world would fully recognize and normalize relations with Israel in exchange for a withdrawal to the borders that existed before the 1967 Six Day war, when Israel captured the West Bank and East Jerusalem from Jordan, the Gaza Strip and the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, and the Golan Heights from Syria.
"The plan rapidly garnered wide support in the Arab world, and has won guarded praise from traditional Mideast mediator Washington. Israel, meanwhile, has generally welcomed the Saudi initiative, but rightists have ruled out any concession on the stipulation that the Jewish state return to its pre-war borders".

It seems the Arabs are fine with the Green Line borders, its the right-wing Israelis that have the problem. And btw, we are talking about a Saudi proposal that all Arab League nations agreed to, not just the Palestinians.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

You must have missed the Arab initiative, drafted at a March 2002 meeting of the Arab League in Beirut, which calls for the full normalization of ties between Israel and the Arab world in return for a complete Israeli withdrawal from all lands captured in the 1967 Six-Day War.

I'm just going to quote myself here: the surrounding Arab countries are always trying to accept yesterday's deal. They should've thought about this before attacking in 1967. They lost and they have to deal with the consequences of losing military conflicts. I don't feel bad for them at all.

 

[9sublime]

What about if their attack in the first place was justified?