The independence of Kossovo is not legitimate

[KingClovis]

Islam has done some great things for civillization.

Remember that period when the whole of the western world collapsed into the Dark Ages due to a mix between the plague and Christian fundamentalism restricting scientific advancement (anything that did so was called blastphemous and the work of the devil).

Well, what happened was all the Muslim scholars took our knowledge and looked after it for us in their mosques so that when we decided to stop acting like stone age men fighting each other and living in squalor we went and got it back. If it wasn't for them we would be hundrerds of years behind in fields such as medicine.

Sure, but what has it done lately?

 

[KingClovis]

So basically, science in the wrong hands has had bad results. No argument there. Christianity, in the wrong hands, has also had bad results. No argument there either. However, these two evidenciary facts don't add up to "Islam is Evil" or some other nonsensical diatribe against their religion. If science and Christianity have been misued when in the wrong hands, doesn't it stand to reason that the same is true of Islam?

And by the way, it's your science too. If you'd like to prove me wrong, you can start with gravity - find a bridge or a nice, tall building and show us all how it's not your science.

Take your woman to the Islamic world. Live there for about a year. See how she likes it.

 

[9sublime]

Sure, but what has it done lately?

So now your backing down and admitting Islam has done many great things.

What great things has Christanity done recently?

Is it an excuse to wipe a faith out because it hasn't done something amazing to change the world for a few hundered years? Sounds to me like we should wipe out all the faiths then.

 

[KingClovis]

So now your backing down and admitting Islam has done many great things.

What great things has Christanity done recently?

Is it an excuse to wipe a faith out because it hasn't done something amazing to change the world for a few hundered years? Sounds to me like we should wipe out all the faiths then.

Islamic scholarship during the Middle Ages was indispensable. My point is that soon afterward, however, it commenced on a course of steady regression, where it remains even today.

 

[9sublime]

What is this steady regression?

 

[KingClovis]

What is this steady regression?

Back toward primitive fundamentalism.

 

[9sublime]

See, there is the assumption. The assumption that the majority of Muslims are, or will be fundamentalists which has no real evidence behind it.

 

[r0beph]

Everyone has done regrettable things at some point. You and I have. Yes, Christian peoples have as well, in times past. AND, so has your science, in the hands of nefarious people. But if you believe Christianity is on equal footing with Islam, with regard to its promotion of Civilization, you are either misinformed or too prejudicial to acknowledge facts. Either way, that's your problem, not mine. We reap what we sow.

My science as opposed to who's? Yours? 6000 year old earth maybe? Just a wonder....It isn't my science it's human's science, we've learned, experimented, and with our vast, albeit very incomplete, knowledge we've made hypotheses, assumptions, and pointed out correlations that have been proven time and time again. Whether you believe it or not, gravity is the warped space that creates the downward motion as you fall through 'space' in a free fall, the sun rides around the galaxy's arms, we around the sun, the moon around us... All of this is pretty easy to see, yet you'll find many who disbelieve without any reasonable argument save for what is in a book.. So explain to me how this, albeit not quite violent, teachings to the future generations of our race isn't a dog lead to dark (in terms of knowledge) ages? IF these people had their way, those who believed such, they'd flog every non believer, kill every gay, and stone to death every person who is living with their girlfriend unmarried... Isn't it the minor sects of Islamists that are doing just that? Take a look around, if it wasn't for our laws and the enforcement there of I'm sure we'd have similar factions in Christianity... Check out the Christians in some of the anarchic countries around the world, look in africa, Christians roving about murdering those who don't believe, look at the russian orthodoxy and their treatment of non-Christians in Russia.... sir, to assume that Christians are not on the same table as the Muslims of the same ideology, you are sadly mistaken, but unlike you, I will not say that simply because of this, you as a Christian are ALSO like them....Think more, speak less....

 

[vyo476]

Take your woman to the Islamic world. Live there for about a year. See how she likes it.

1. This was not a response to my post. This was a dodge, and not a very subtle one at that. If my reasoning is that Islam can be and has been (and continues to be) mishandled, how does a statement of "go experience it being mishandled" refute my point at all?

2. I would not claim any woman as "mine"; furthermore, most of the women I know and associate with would be very offended to be referred to so blatantly as possessions. This is on you, unless you'd like to cleverly retract or redirect the above-quoted statement.

 

[vyo476]

Islamic scholarship during the Middle Ages was indispensable. My point is that soon afterward, however, it commenced on a course of steady regression, where it remains even today.

Consider the role of affluence on society.

During the Middle Ages, the Middle East was one of, if not the, most affluent regions of the planet. Things were more or less good there in a way they weren't elsewhere - science and culture were both advancing.

The Renaissance hit, and suddenly the Middle East started losing its affluence. The Ottoman Empire took over and, to borrow a phrase from the most academic of textbooks, "royally dicked things up." The Middle East, and Islam with it, fell into a regressive spiral that toppled them from one of the world's premiere civilizations to a disparate, disorganized group of nation-states, unsure of whether to fight themselves over tribal boundaries or to fight outsiders over culture and economics.

So yeah, things are looking down right now for Islam - but that does not, by any stretch of the imagination, mean that things will never look up again. Go pick up a book by Reza Aslan, he explains the whole thing a lot better than I do.

 

[Jeugenen]

Christian America And Christian Europe Love The Christian Serbs; And Shall Never Forget That Serbs Gave The World Nicolai Tesla; And Shall Quickly Integrate Christian Serbia Into Christian Europe. Had Kosovo Not Rebelled And Seceded From Serbia, Integration Into Europe Would Have Been Impossible.

 

[Jeugenen]

Christian America And Christian Europe Love The Christian Serbs; And Shall Never Forget That Serbs Gave The World Nicolai Tesla; And Shall Quickly Integrate Christian Serbia Into Christian Europe. Had Kosovo Not Rebelled And Seceded From Serbia, Integration Into Europe Would Have Been Impossible.

 

[SW85]

If they want independence, who are you to stop them? Government is for the people, not the other way round, and if the people don't want the government, they shouldn't have it.

Sounding an awful lot like a neocon, sublime. :lol:

As for why Muslim immigration to Europe is bad -- when, throughout history, has it ever worked out well for the receiving society to take in millions of poor foreigners without precondition?

 

[Federal Farmer]

when, throughout history, has it ever worked out well for the receiving society to take in millions of poor foreigners without precondition?

My Native American ancestors would fully agree with you.

 

[BigRob]

Islamic scholarship during the Middle Ages was indispensable. My point is that soon afterward, however, it commenced on a course of steady regression, where it remains even today.

Neither Europe nor the Middle East could hold a candle to what the Chinese were doing long before all of this. Those crazy Asians