First off... it doesn't make someone a liar because they can't prove something to somebody over the internet.
You can't prove it because its purely opinion. The term "excruciating pain" is entirely subjective, you cannot quantify it... Same with torture... There is no blanket definition that you can apply that would eliminate the question of what is and is not torture... Torture is a concept that's subject to the opinion of the individual.
I had a toothache once that put me in "excruciating pain", I also amost drowned once... Both were incredibly unpleasent experiences that I would not want to repeat but neither were torture. That same toothache in someone elses head may not have been to them "excruciating pain", becuase its entirely subjective to the individual.
If I came to your house with a bucket of water and a hose I could prove it to you in say 6 seconds.
Top Gun is threatening to waterboard me!!! Quick, someone send this to the FBI... We've gotta keep an eye on these Left-Wing-Extremists... they are likely to create a "Man Caused Disaster"
For someone who claims waterboarding is torture, we shouldn't ever do it and those who do waterboard others should be tried as war criminals... you certainly are eager to waterboard those you disagree with.
But seriously... If my being waterboarded would save the lives of American troops and/or civilians by preventing the next 9/11, I'd gladly put myself through the "torture" of being waterboarded to do so... But since I'm not a terrorist (or whatever fluffy-bunny name you've given those responsible for creating man-caused-disasters), since I'm not one of those... I don't have to be worried about being waterboarded.
Secondly... the proof is one of general everyday knowledge and common sense. Everyone knows water suffocation (drowning) is painful. All waterboarding is... is force feeding drowning.
This is actually a common fallacy...
"Everyone knows" is an example of
Argumentum ad populum, appeal to the people:
in logic, is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges that "If many believe so, it is so."
Now come on... I know your not bent toward being reasonable but drowning does hurt.
Actually I'm very reasonable... You're the one who is being unreasonable by demanding that everyone stop thinking for themselves and agree with your position. As Patton used to say, "If everyone is thinking alike, then no one is thinking."
I do agree that waterboarding is absolutely terrifying... but it is not "excruciatingly painful" and its far more humane than whatever the people we send to other countries though rendition are being subject to.
And I've already posted several pieces now where people that have went through it say it was so bad they could only stand it for like 6 seconds.
This is another fallacy of logic, no matter how many you post. Appeal to Authority:
a logical fallacy, where it is argued that a statement is correct because the statement is made by a person or source that is commonly regarded as authoritative.
There are just as many people who claim its not torture but I don't post those because it would be fallacious of me to do so. Therefore, its down to our personal opinion...
Multiple that by a lot of time per dose and then times that by some over 130 secissions.
If the fact that we only waterboarded 3 senior members of Al Qaeda has no bearing on the issue, then the frequency by which we subjected them to waterboarding also bears no importance. If quantity doesn't count on the one hand, then it doesn't count on the other.
Well what was i thinking? I mean he's only an ex-Navy Seal that's been waterboarded in training... you are obviously more knowledgeable...
Being waterboarded is probably the most 'piss your pants' terrifying interrogation technique we could ever conceive of using but it is not "excruciatingly painful"...
Yesterday on CNN’s Larry King Live, former Minnesota governor Jesse Ventura — a former Navy SEAL who has been waterboarded — poured cold water on this talking point, saying that waterboarding is in fact “drowning.”
Ventura said it was "drowning"... What Ventura never says in King's fallacious
appeal to authority segment.... is that waterboarding is "excruciatingly painful"... which was the claim you made to Dr. Who...
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We disagree that waterboarding is torture. I think everyone else understands that, yet you continue to argue as if the topic were: "Is Waterboarding Torture?"... when you know that is not the topic...
You have your opinion and I have mine. I don't think you're weak on terrorists for holding your position and you shouldn't think I'm "Pro-Torture" for holding mine. We disagree on one specific technique but agree on nearly all the others...
If you could just agree to disagree on that specific technique, which was abandoned in 2005, then we could move on and discuss the actual topic... Namely, what specific techniques you would approve for use in the cases of 1-A suspects after they have gone through the other 5 levels of interrogation and remain uncooperative.
On the one hand... You said we should stay inside the bounds of the GC...
On the other hand... You said our interrogators should be allowed to have physical contact with the suspects... which is strictly forbidden by the GC.
I find it much more interesting discussing the actual topic than going back and forth on the topic you wish this thread were about.