What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush lie?

[pocketfullofshells]

due to some crying about Bill getting head from a intern ( because god knows if you Clinton did something wrong, it means Bush is free to do what ever her wants) I was asked to start a thread on this. Also it works well with Scott McClellan who has come out and talked about how Dick and Libby lied to him as Press Secretary.

Valerie Plame Wilson was a undercover CIA Operations Officer, a lot of what she did is still Classified, but she worked in counter-proliferation. Disclosure of information about her is protected by Executive Order 12958.

Dick Cheney started everything when he contacted the CIA in regards to reports about Yellow Cake shipments in Niger. The CIA contacted Joe Wilson, Valerie's Husband and Former Ambassador to Niger who had many connections in the area. Wilson Meet with officials in Niger, and it was very clear that the Document was in fact forged, and he returned ( if you wish Detail on how it was known to be fake, feel free to ask, but it was clearly fake) the CIA then sent out a copy of its report on this to those who where effected...Wilson says he is sure it would have been sent to Cheney as he was the one who requested the Info.

The State of the Union Speech: everyone by know knows that Bush told the American Public that we had intel that showed Iraq had tried to get Yellow-cake from Niger.This info had already been scrubbed once for not having intel to back it up, but made it into this speech. It was claimed that they did not know. I personally found this to be 1. a Bold Lie again, or 2. Proof they had no clue what they where doing. I myself watched this state of the Union , not because I cared what he said, but to play a Drinking game to it lol. But when he said this part, and the part about the tubes I was heard Yelling at the screen about how it was a lie, even I know that document was fake at the time he said it. My Clearance with CIA is not as high as the White House I am sure.

Wilson later wrote a Op Ed piece attacking this info and providing details about how they should have known this when they said it. Soon, Robert Novak( who I will only refer to as Satan after this point) wrote a article attacking Wilson and outing Plame, ending her carer at the CIA. "Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate." Also that Valerie had pushed for him to be send, also has been shown to be not true.

One thing we will most likely never know, is How many other Covert Status agents also where forced to loss the work they where doing, or its possible may have paid even more of a price, as anyone connected to her in her operations was burned with her.

Bush of course stated that he this leak was very serious and if anyone in the white house was involved they would be fired. As it was more and more Clear Top White House officials where in fact involved, he got softer and softer...

Finally Libby was Found Guilty on 4 of 5 counts, Perjury, Obstructions of Justice, and making false statements to the FBI and Grand Jury. Evidence of Dick Cheney and Rove being involved as well piled up, but due to witnesses not all talking, and LIbbys failing to tell the truth have not been charged ( yet)

Libby Faced up to 25 years in jail and a Million Dollar Fine. He gets 30 months, a fine, an is Disbarred. This was clearly to harsh for the small Crime of lieing on issues of national Security to a Grand Jury and the FBI...so Bush Commutes it to almost nothing. Proabtion and a fine.

It was this event that McClellan states made him decied he needed to leave the Bush WHite House, as he had been lied and used by Dick and Libby to lie to the media for them.

But don't worry, Bill got head from a Intern in a case stated over a land deal that nothing ever was found on.

Personaly I want those involved Hung on the White House Lawn on TV. Traitors to the nation. Here stands before us the real "UnAmericans" Dick, Libby, Rove.

 

[SW85]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

I love how you manage to gloss over entirely the fact that no one you named in that post was actually involved in the "scandal."

Richard Armitage, the anti-war, anti-Cheney CIA bureaucrat, "leaked" Wilson's name -- not Wilson. This fact alone invalidates your entire conspiracy theory that her name was "leaked" as retaliation for the Wilsons' opposition to the war.

What Armitage did wasn't a crime, because Wilson wasn't covert. It wasn't even particularly sleazy, since IIRC he was blowing the whistle on the fact that she had abused her anti-war connections with the anti-war CIA to land her anti-war husband an anti-war make-work job.

And finally, Libby's conviction stemmed from his faulty recollection of a conversation he had had three months earlier with a journalist, about three degrees of separation removed from the case itself.

Let me repeat that: he was convicted for his faulty recollection of a months-old conversation with a third party about the ethically justifiable non-crime he wasn't involved in, while the real (and confessed) non-criminal remains unindicted.

Libby's conviction was an abortion of justice.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

First Leaking her name was in fact Illegal as I pointed out, and her status was in fact Clasified. Leaking her name was a crime, thats why Bush even stated at first that who ever did it would be Fired.

2nd The Artical By Satan, Stated that 2 White house Officials told him. And Libby's "Faulty Memory" is what is commonly known as lying. Thus why he was Convicted.

Even the White House Press Sec has now come out stating that he was lied to by LIbby and Dick.

Also you forget that that Miller also confirmed that LIbby was her source of the leak to the Grand Jury.

Rove's lawyer contends that he never Discussed that She worked with the CIA to Cooper. But in a Email 3 days before Satan's article was published,Copper indicated that in fact Rove had told him about Her being with the CIA. Originally he was not going to Testify, but was told by his source he could, this was confirmed later by Roves' lawyer that it was in fact Rove. Cooper also stated to the grand jury that he learned that She was CIA, and worked on WMD , threw Rove. And that she may have been the one who had Joe Wilson sent to Niger. Now he did state that he did not use her name, but how much work would it take a reporter to find out the name of the wife of US Ambassador who worked in DC? about 3 sec, in fact he said he may have even googled it.

Also even if Rove had not knowingly outed her, he would still be in violation and an the min should have had his Security Clearance Revoked, Just anyone who leaked this info.

That you can't even admit that she was undercover and protected to me says you don't know what happened at all, listen to to much FOX Noise, or just don't care. There is a reason the Justice Department and CIA asked to find out who leaked this info, because they knew it was in Violation of the law and or a major breach of National Security that those responsible for should have Clearance revoked,

That Bush showed he cared so little , to make sure he buddy never was in jail, showed that he put his Friend above the law and US Security.

 

[Pandora]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

due to some crying about Bill getting head from a intern ( because god knows if you Clinton did something wrong, it means Bush is free to do what ever her wants) I was asked to start a thread on this. Also it works well with Scott McClellan who has come out and talked about how Dick and Libby lied to him as Press Secretary.

Valerie Plame Wilson was a undercover CIA Operations Officer, a lot of what she did is still Classified, but she worked in counter-proliferation. Disclosure of information about her is protected by Executive Order 12958.

Dick Cheney started everything when he contacted the CIA in regards to reports about Yellow Cake shipments in Niger. The CIA contacted Joe Wilson, Valerie's Husband and Former Ambassador to Niger who had many connections in the area. Wilson Meet with officials in Niger, and it was very clear that the Document was in fact forged, and he returned ( if you wish Detail on how it was known to be fake, feel free to ask, but it was clearly fake) the CIA then sent out a copy of its report on this to those who where effected...Wilson says he is sure it would have been sent to Cheney as he was the one who requested the Info.

The State of the Union Speech: everyone by know knows that Bush told the American Public that we had intel that showed Iraq had tried to get Yellow-cake from Niger.This info had already been scrubbed once for not having intel to back it up, but made it into this speech. It was claimed that they did not know. I personally found this to be 1. a Bold Lie again, or 2. Proof they had no clue what they where doing. I myself watched this state of the Union , not because I cared what he said, but to play a Drinking game to it lol. But when he said this part, and the part about the tubes I was heard Yelling at the screen about how it was a lie, even I know that document was fake at the time he said it. My Clearance with CIA is not as high as the White House I am sure.

Wilson later wrote a Op Ed piece attacking this info and providing details about how they should have known this when they said it. Soon, Robert Novak( who I will only refer to as Satan after this point) wrote a article attacking Wilson and outing Plame, ending her carer at the CIA. "Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate." Also that Valerie had pushed for him to be send, also has been shown to be not true.

One thing we will most likely never know, is How many other Covert Status agents also where forced to loss the work they where doing, or its possible may have paid even more of a price, as anyone connected to her in her operations was burned with her.

Bush of course stated that he this leak was very serious and if anyone in the white house was involved they would be fired. As it was more and more Clear Top White House officials where in fact involved, he got softer and softer...

Finally Libby was Found Guilty on 4 of 5 counts, Perjury, Obstructions of Justice, and making false statements to the FBI and Grand Jury. Evidence of Dick Cheney and Rove being involved as well piled up, but due to witnesses not all talking, and LIbbys failing to tell the truth have not been charged ( yet)

Libby Faced up to 25 years in jail and a Million Dollar Fine. He gets 30 months, a fine, an is Disbarred. This was clearly to harsh for the small Crime of lieing on issues of national Security to a Grand Jury and the FBI...so Bush Commutes it to almost nothing. Proabtion and a fine.

It was this event that McClellan states made him decied he needed to leave the Bush WHite House, as he had been lied and used by Dick and Libby to lie to the media for them.

But don't worry, Bill got head from a Intern in a case stated over a land deal that nothing ever was found on.

Personaly I want those involved Hung on the White House Lawn on TV. Traitors to the nation. Here stands before us the real "UnAmericans" Dick, Libby, Rove.

Thanks for the thread I have never talked about this with anyone via the web before.

I will tell you what I have read, and seen on the news. I am very happy to be corrected where I am wrong. I am not at all saying I am right on this. Just this is where my mindset is because of what I have seen and read.


1. Joe Wilson “outted” his wife in a sense in his book he wrote. He talked about her job and what she did. Also it was well known to the people who lived in the neighborhood and their friends who she was and what she did. Not a secret to anyone really.

2. She was not considered “under cover” because to have undercover status you have had to been on a secret mission within the last 5 years and she had not. It is not considered illegal or “outing” if you are not considered under cover.


I am sure you have heard this before, and you must have a good explanation. I really am not trying to challenge you or anything. I followed the story when it was happening but have not now for a really long time.

If you have some information that could disprove this stuff, I would really be happy to hear it. I don’t want to believe something that is not true, but I don’t want to get caught up in kool-aid drinking either. I am not accusing you of kool-aid drinking, I just don’t know and want to be careful.

 

[SW85]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

First Leaking her name was in fact Illegal as I pointed out, and her status was in fact Clasified. Leaking her name was a crime, thats why Bush even stated at first that who ever did it would be Fired.

The law which Libby wasn't convicted of requires that the "outed" agent have been stationed overseas as part of a long-term (i.e., not temporary) assignment within the last five years. Wilson and Plame, by Wilson's own admission, had been living in the United States since the early summer of 1997 -- six years before the "outing" took place.

So, again, she was not "covert" in any meaningful sense of the word.

2nd The Artical By Satan, Stated that 2 White house Officials told him. And Libby's "Faulty Memory" is what is commonly known as lying. Thus why he was Convicted.

Just so ya know, it took me a few minutes to puzzle out what you were trying to say here.

Novak, also by his own admission, said he'd heard it first from Armitage and then asked Karl Rove for confirmation; he was not told by two people. And again, even if he were, not a crime -- Plame wasn't covert.

Second, you cannot seriously expect two people to have the exact same recollection of a months-old conversation; there will naturally be discrepancies. The fact is that Libby was convicted because his testimony did not match Miller's. That is literally the definition of "he said/she said" evidence; it is not a basis for conviction of perjury, which is why Bush granted clemency.

And again, even if he had deliberately lied, it still means nothing. The only reason he was being asked about that particular conversation is because it would prove that he knew about Plame's identity early enough to have been the one to leak it.

But we already know he didn't leak it!

Even the White House Press Sec has now come out stating that he was lied to by LIbby and Dick.

He said he was told Libby had no involvement in it.

His evidence that Libby was involved in it is that Libby was convicted.

I'm telling you Libby (a) wasn't convicted of that (because he wasn't), and (b) couldn't have been (because he wasn't responsible for it).


Your mindless complaining about Fox is just annoying and beneath response; I don't watch cable news.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

First His book came out long after the leak, in fact thats why he wrote the book. Its a great read, and the CIA leak thing is only part of it, it goes over his work in Africa, and at the US Emabsee in Iraq during the first gulf war helping get people out of Iraq, and meeting with Sadam.

the Outing was Novak's article. That's why the National Security/CIA went and asked for a investigation. Do you really think he would out his own wife in a book? Not only would she not let him, but any info would most likely be stopped by the CIA itself, who redacted large parts of her own book later as she like any CIA official or ex has the CIA go over the book to make sure no info they did not want out was taken out. Only book I have read seen with more Redacted, was Jawbreaker, by the Top CIA man in the field in Afghanistan until after Tora Bora. Great read as well.

As for her not being undercover, that is a view only held by a few party hacks for the republicans who would say anything to Help Bush. The basis normally used for this, is that she worked in DC. This also shows that those making this view don't have a Fing clue about national Security or the CIA. Plame did work in DC yes, but also went overseas, and when overseas sometimes used her real name, and others under alias. Her status was only changed after the leak.

(The CIA determined, "that the public interest in allowing the criminal prosecution to proceed outweighed the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from the official disclosure of Ms. Wilson's employment and cover status."")

I just quick went back to find some article that explianed it a bit, but there is alot of proof showing that she was in fact undercover. I mean that the CIA said she was, should be a big hint at it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679/

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

The law which Libby wasn't convicted of requires that the "outed" agent have been stationed overseas as part of a long-term (i.e., not temporary) assignment within the last five years. Wilson and Plame, by Wilson's own admission, had been living in the United States since the early summer of 1997 -- six years before the "outing" took place.

So, again, she was not "covert" in any meaningful sense of the word.



Just so ya know, it took me a few minutes to puzzle out what you were trying to say here.

Novak, also by his own admission, said he'd heard it first from Armitage and then asked Karl Rove for confirmation; he was not told by two people. And again, even if he were, not a crime -- Plame wasn't covert.

Second, you cannot seriously expect two people to have the exact same recollection of a months-old conversation; there will naturally be discrepancies. The fact is that Libby was convicted because his testimony did not match Miller's. That is literally the definition of "he said/she said" evidence; it is not a basis for conviction of perjury, which is why Bush granted clemency.

And again, even if he had deliberately lied, it still means nothing. The only reason he was being asked about that particular conversation is because it would prove that he knew about Plame's identity early enough to have been the one to leak it.

But we already know he didn't leak it!



He said he was told Libby had no involvement in it.

His evidence that Libby was involved in it is that Libby was convicted.

I'm telling you Libby (a) wasn't convicted of that (because he wasn't), and (b) couldn't have been (because he wasn't responsible for it).


Your mindless complaining about Fox is just annoying and beneath response; I don't watch cable news.

The CIA does not agree with your views on classified undercover. And as I stated above, she traveled outside the US. Because she also worked in DC does not in fact limit a agent from going overseas, undercover.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080603/ap_on_go_co/cia_leak_probe

This artical related to Cheny and LIbby over the CIA case just hit as I typed that responce, so I posted the link.

 

[Pandora]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

First His book came out long after the leak, in fact thats why he wrote the book. Its a great read, and the CIA leak thing is only part of it, it goes over his work in Africa, and at the US Emabsee in Iraq during the first gulf war helping get people out of Iraq, and meeting with Sadam.

the Outing was Novak's article. That's why the National Security/CIA went and asked for a investigation. Do you really think he would out his own wife in a book? Not only would she not let him, but any info would most likely be stopped by the CIA itself, who redacted large parts of her own book later as she like any CIA official or ex has the CIA go over the book to make sure no info they did not want out was taken out. Only book I have read seen with more Redacted, was Jawbreaker, by the Top CIA man in the field in Afghanistan until after Tora Bora. Great read as well.

As for her not being undercover, that is a view only held by a few party hacks for the republicans who would say anything to Help Bush. The basis normally used for this, is that she worked in DC. This also shows that those making this view don't have a Fing clue about national Security or the CIA. Plame did work in DC yes, but also went overseas, and when overseas sometimes used her real name, and others under alias. Her status was only changed after the leak.

(The CIA determined, "that the public interest in allowing the criminal prosecution to proceed outweighed the damage to national security that might reasonably be expected from the official disclosure of Ms. Wilson's employment and cover status."")

I just quick went back to find some article that explianed it a bit, but there is alot of proof showing that she was in fact undercover. I mean that the CIA said she was, should be a big hint at it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679/

Ok I spent some time looking and I found something that backs what you said about Joe Wilson’s book.

His work "What I Didn't Find in Africa," published in The New York Times on July 6, 2003.

Then On September 16, 2003, the CIA sent a letter to the US Department of Justice, asserting that Plame's status as a CIA undercover operative was classified information and requesting a federal investigation

His book was published (I am not sure what month) but in 2004 according to CNN.

So it does seem that unless he let people read it before he actually published it, his book came out a few months too late to make him the one who "outted” her.

So I feel fairly satisfied that this was not the source of letting the information out.

But people who knew them, neighbors, friends said they knew what her job was and even her work name or covert name. I am not sure how to explain that part.

You are posting with sw85 and disagreeing on some things. But you did say that some people did state that if you were not working undercover for at least 5 years you are not considered secret and there is no protection. So I guess that part has to be a difference of opinion, and agree to disagree.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

Ok I spent some time looking and I found something that backs what you said about Joe Wilson’s book.

His work "What I Didn't Find in Africa," published in The New York Times on July 6, 2003.

Then On September 16, 2003, the CIA sent a letter to the US Department of Justice, asserting that Plame's status as a CIA undercover operative was classified information and requesting a federal investigation

His book was published (I am not sure what month) but in 2004 according to CNN.

So it does seem that unless he let people read it before he actually published it, his book came out a few months too late to make him the one who "outted” her.

So I feel fairly satisfied that this was not the source of letting the information out.

But people who knew them, neighbors, friends said they knew what her job was and even her work name or covert name. I am not sure how to explain that part.

You are posting with sw85 and disagreeing on some things. But you did say that some people did state that if you were not working undercover for at least 5 years you are not considered secret and there is no protection. So I guess that part has to be a difference of opinion, and agree to disagree.

if you have not worked undercover for 5 years, then your status may be changed. If you have worked undercover in the last 5 years, then yes you are 100% covered. She had in fact worked undercover in the last 5 years, so that point is not valid anyway. Some people have this idea that undercover CIA means you live in some Village in some far off land the hole time with fake names and fake jobs. While yes some may do that, others spend there time in DC, but do in fact go overseas undercover , sometimes with the same name, but under for false reasons, and not being identified as CIA, other times with a 100% fake status, fake name and everything. You have those who work undercover in the US Embassy in a nation, who in fact work with the CIA, and this fact may not even be known to anyone else in the embassy. One major difference is those who work undercover, but with official status, aka a embassy or something, if found out normally are send back home, and some form of retaliation, such as expelling some other person as well may happen. If going with a fake name and unoffical status, all those rules are off and governments can more or less do with you what they want, so it is very dangerous.

That said, for what is know, it is belived that over those 5 years before, she had been overseas some 7 to possibly more then 10 times, based on reports. The CIA of course, will not say what she did, when, how often or any of that, as well they should not. What they have stated is that her status was undercover, and that should be all anyone needs to end that debate.

 

[Pandora]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

if you have not worked undercover for 5 years, then your status may be changed. If you have worked undercover in the last 5 years, then yes you are 100% covered. She had in fact worked undercover in the last 5 years, so that point is not valid anyway. Some people have this idea that undercover CIA means you live in some Village in some far off land the hole time with fake names and fake jobs. While yes some may do that, others spend there time in DC, but do in fact go overseas undercover , sometimes with the same name, but under for false reasons, and not being identified as CIA, other times with a 100% fake status, fake name and everything. You have those who work undercover in the US Embassy in a nation, who in fact work with the CIA, and this fact may not even be known to anyone else in the embassy. One major difference is those who work undercover, but with official status, aka a embassy or something, if found out normally are send back home, and some form of retaliation, such as expelling some other person as well may happen. If going with a fake name and unoffical status, all those rules are off and governments can more or less do with you what they want, so it is very dangerous.

That said, for what is know, it is belived that over those 5 years before, she had been overseas some 7 to possibly more then 10 times, based on reports. The CIA of course, will not say what she did, when, how often or any of that, as well they should not. What they have stated is that her status was undercover, and that should be all anyone needs to end that debate.

Can you show me anything official or a news report that says she had been under cover in that 5 year period? I tried to find that before and all I found was that she had not.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

sorry there was suppose to be one linked, but here is one if not
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679
if you want more, can find you 50 more lol

 

[Pandora]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

sorry there was suppose to be one linked, but here is one if not
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679
if you want more, can find you 50 more lol

I read it but I honestly dont trust msnbc, so I kept looking and I did find on the third wickapedia site where it said she was covert at the time so that seems good enough for me. I still keep finding links that say she was not and I dont know what to make of it. the wickapedia one said she had to quit her job so that made me feel bad.

 

[Libsmasher]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

Saddam was deposed, and it's just not fair!

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Re: What member of Bush CO, is realy behind the CIA Leak Scandal, and why did Bush li

Saddam was deposed, and it's just not fair!

please don't post on this thread.