Who owns the Federal Reserve Bank?

[Truth-Bringer]

Phone conversation about the unseen operations of the Federal Reserve System -- Andrew Winkler

The following is a conversation with Mr. Ron Supinski of the Public Information Department of the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank.

This is an actual transcript of that conversation.

CALLER: Mr. Supinski, does my country own the Federal Reserve System?

MR. SUPINSKI: We are an agency of the government.

CALLER: That's not my question. Is it owned by my country?

MR. SUPINSKI: It is an agency of the government created by congress.

CALLER: Is the Federal Reserve a Corporation?

MR. SUPINSKI: Yes.

CALLER: Does my government own any of the stock in the Federal Reserve?

MR. SUPINSKI: No, it is owned by the member banks.

CALLER: Are the member banks private corporations?

MR. SUPINSKI: Yes.

CALLER: Are Federal Reserve Notes backed by anything?

MR. SUPINSKI: Yes, by the assets of the Federal Reserve but, primarily by the power of congress to lay tax on the people.

CALLER: Did you say, by the power to collect taxes is what backs Federal Reserve Notes?

MR. SUPINSKI: Yes.

CALLER: What are the total assets of the Federal Reserve?

MR. SUPINSKI: The San Francisco Bank has $36 Billion in assets.

CALLER: What are these assets composed of?

MR. SUPINSKI: Gold, the Federal Reserve Bank itself and government securities.

CALLER: What value does the Federal Reserve Bank carry gold per oz. on their books?

MR. SUPINSKI: I don't have that information but the San Francisco Bank has $1.6 billion in gold.

CALLER: Are you saying the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco has $1.6 billion in gold, the bank itself and the balance of the assets is government securities?

MR. SUPINSKI: Yes.

CALLER: Where does the Federal Reserve get Federal Reserve Notes from?

MR. SUPINSKI: They are authorized by the U.S. Treasury.

CALLER: How much does the Federal Reserve pay for a $10 Federal Reserve Note?

MR. SUPINSKI: Fifty to seventy cents (0.50¢ to 0.70¢).

CALLER: How much do they pay for a $100.00 Federal Reserve Note?

MR. SUPINSKI: The same fifty to seventy cents (0.50¢ to 0.70¢).

CALLER: To pay only 0.50¢ for a US $100.00 dollar bill is a tremendous gain, isn't it?

MR. SUPINSKI: Yes.

CALLER: According to the US Treasury, the Federal Reserve pays $20.60 per 1,000 denomination or a little over two cents for a $100.00 bill, is that correct?

MR. SUPINSKI: That is probably close.

CALLER: Doesn't the Federal Reserve use the Federal Reserve Notes that cost about two cents each to purchase U.S. Treasury Bonds from the government?

MR. SUPINSKI: Yes, but there is more to it than that.

CALLER: Basically, that is what happens?

MR. SUPINSKI: Yes, basically you are correct.

CALLER: How many Federal Reserve Notes are in circulation?

MR. SUPINSKI: $263 billion and we can only account for a small percentage.

CALLER: Where did they go?

MR. SUPINSKI: Peoples mattress, buried in their back yards and illegal drug money.

CALLER: Since the debt is payable in Federal Reserve Notes, how can the $4 trillion national debt be paid-off with the total Federal Reserve Notes in circulation?

MR. SUPINSKI: I don't know.

CALLER: If the Federal Government would collect every Federal Reserve Note in circulation would it be mathematically possible to pay the $4 trillion national debt?

MR. SUPINSKI: No.

CALLER: Am I correct when I say, $1 deposited in a member bank $8 can be lent out through Fractional Reserve Policy?

MR. SUPINSKI: About $7.

CALLER: Correct me if I am wrong but, $7 of additional Federal Reserve Notes were never put in circulation.

For lack of better words they were "created out of thin air" in the form of credits and the two cents per denomination were not paid either.

In other words, the Federal Reserve Notes were not physically printed but, in reality were created by a journal entry and lent at interest.

Is that correct?

MR. SUPINSKI: Yes.

CALLER: Is that the reason there are only $263 billion Federal Reserve Notes in circulation?

MR. SUPINSKI: That is part of the reason.

CALLER: Am I mistaking that when the Federal Reserve Act was passed (on Christmas Eve) in 1913, it transferred the power to coin and issue our nation's money and to regulate the value thereof from Congress to a Private corporation.

And my country now borrows what should be our own money from the Federal Reserve (a private corporation) plus interest.

Is that correct and if so, the debt can never be paid off under the current money system?

MR. SUPINSKI: Basically, yes.

CALLER: I smell a rat, do you?

MR. SUPINSKI: I am sorry, I can't answer that, I work here.

CALLER: Has the Federal Reserve ever been independently audited?

MR. SUPINSKI: We are audited.

CALLER: Why is there a current House Resolution 1486 calling for a complete audit of the Federal Reserve by the GAO and why is the Federal Reserve resisting?

MR. SUPINSKI: I don't know.

CALLER: Does the Federal Reserve regulate the value of Federal Reserve Notes and interest rates?

MR. SUPINSKI: Yes.

CALLER: Explain how the Federal Reserve System can be Constitutional if, only the Congress of the US, which comprises of the Senate and the House of representatives has the power to coin and issue our money supply and regulate the value thereof? (Article 1 Section 1 and Section

Nowhere, in the Constitution does it give Congress the power or authority to transfer any powers granted under the Constitution to a private corporation or, does it?

MR. SUPINSKI: I am not an expert on constitutional law. I can refer you to our legal department.

CALLER: I can tell you I have read the Constitution. It does NOT provide that any power granted can be transferred to a private corporation. Doesn't it specifically state, all other powers not granted are reserved to the States and to the citizens?

Does that mean to a private corporation?

MR. SUPINSKI: I don't think so, but we were created by Congress.

CALLER: Would you agree it is our country and it should be our money as provided by our Constitution?

MR. SUPINSKI: I understand what you are saying.

CALLER: Why should we borrow our own money from a private consortium of bankers?

Isn't this why we had a revolution, created a separate sovereign nation and a Bill of Rights?

MR. SUPINSKI: (Declined to answer).

CALLER: Has the Federal Reserve ever been declared constitutional by the Supreme Court?

MR. SUPINSKI: I believe there have been court cases on the matter.

CALLER: Have there been Supreme Court Cases?

MR. SUPINSKI: I think so, but I am not sure.

CALLER: Didn't the Supreme Court declare unanimously in A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. vs. US and Carter vs. Carter Coal Co. the corporative-state arrangement an unconstitutional delegation of legislative power?

("The power conferred is the power to regulate. This is legislative delegation in its most obnoxious form; for it is not even delegation to an official or an official body, presumptively disinterested, but to private persons." Carter vs. Carter Coal Co...)

MR. SUPINSKI: I don't know, I can refer you to our legal department.

CALLER: Isn't the current money system a house of cards that must fall because, the debt can mathematically never be paid-off?

MR. SUPINSKI: It appears that way.

I can tell you have been looking into this matter and are very knowledgeable. However, we do have a solution.

CALLER: What is the solution?

MR. SUPINSKI: The Debit Card.

CALLER: Do you mean under the EFT Act (Electronic Funds Transfer)?

Isn't that very frightening, when one considers the capabilities of computers?

It would provide the government and all it's agencies, including the Federal Reserve such information as: You went to the gas station @ 2:30 and bought $10.00 of unleaded gas @ $1.41 per gallon and then you went to the grocery store @ 2:58 and bought bread, lunch meat and milk for $12.32 and then went to the drug store @ 3:30 and bought cold medicine for $5.62.

In other words, the government would know where we go, when we went, how much we paid, how much the merchant paid and how much profit he made.

Under the EFT they will literally know everything about us. Isn't that kind of scary?

MR. SUPINSKI: Yes, it makes you wonder.

CALLER: I smell a GIANT RAT that has overthrown my constitution. Aren't we paying tribute in the form of income taxes to a consortium of private bankers?

MR. SUPINSKI: I can't call it tribute, it is interest.

CALLER: Haven't all elected officials taken an oath of office to preserve and defend the Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic? Isn't the Federal Reserve a domestic enemy?

MR. SUPINSKI: I can't say that.

CALLER: Our elected officials and members of the Federal Reserve are guilty of aiding and abetting the overthrowing of my Constitution and that is treason. Isn't the punishment of treason death?

MR. SUPINSKI: I believe so.

CALLER: Thank you for your time and information and if I may say so, I think you should take the necessary steps to protect you and your family and withdraw your money from the banks before the collapse. I am.

MR. SUPINSKI: It doesn't look good.

CALLER: May God have mercy on the souls who are behind this unconstitutional and criminal act called the Federal Reserve. When the ALMIGHTY MASS awakens to this giant hoax, they will not take it with a grain of salt. It has been a pleasure talking to you and I thank you for your time. I hope you will take my advice before it does collapse.

MR. SUPINSKI: Unfortunately, it does not look good.

CALLER: Have a good day and thanks for your time.

MR. SUPINSKI: Thanks for calling.

http://www.wikiprotest.com/index.php?title=A_Phone_Call_With_The_Federal_Reserve

 

[Truth-Bringer]

A new animated show is quite enlightening on the modern banking system:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279&hl=en

For those with more time on your hands, you might want to check out "The Money Masters":


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8753934454816686947&q=money+masters&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2665915773877500927&q=money+masters&hl=en

 

[Rokerijdude11]

Private BANKERS own the reserve and it aint federal at all take a look at the links this gal gave ya they rock take a look at Aaron Russo's Freedom to Fascism


hey there T-B small world eh?

 

[Rokerijdude11]

So what no takers here? None of you really understand how badly you have been lied to and manipulated.You do not understand the current situation concerning the federal Reserve and our fiat currency perhaps we need to change that ???

 

[Rokerijdude11]

here lets start right here this is a MUST watch for all american citizens....its a lil over an hour well well worth the watch watch the video absorb its contents and then we can discuss what it covers

Arron Russo's "FREEDOM TO FASCISM"

 

[palerider]

So what no takers here? None of you really understand how badly you have been lied to and manipulated.You do not understand the current situation concerning the federal Reserve and our fiat currency perhaps we need to change that ???

You seem to be saying that the sky is falling. I look out my window, however, and see that it is still up there. Exactly what is the source of your panic? Truth bringer, once again, cut and pasted information and you have provided a link, but have completely failed to give any indication of what this means to you other than the typical libertarian rant that "they" are lying to you.

What is it about the information that has been posted that causes you anxiety? Describe, in your own words, what it is that you fear in all this.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

whoa there big guy was that me in the video? man if it was nobody payed me! I havent stated any such thing that the sky is falling?? all i did is ask if any of you knew who owned the federal reserve bank. And then i provided you all with an excellent video. Perhaps your issue is with the videos producer?

I havent discussed anything, as nobody had said anything in the thread to date. Was i supposed to talk to myself? Is that you implication?

What does what Truth bringer said, or did, have to do with MY post?Maybe you have an issue with her? Take it up with her. Or perhaps your tired of her manhandling you in the threads? I dont know ask her about what she posted not me.

Yes i provided you with a VERY informative link, and based on your ludicrous one dimensional answer, ill find it safe to assume you didnt watch the vider else you would have had any one of a hundred other ACTUAL points, instead of the lame ass excuse of a a response that you gave!!

Choosing agin to insult, rather than engage in actual dialog. This seems to be your S.O.P. though since my arrival, so ill in the future know to expect this type of reponse from you. It is those who truly cannot bring anything of value to the table that have to lower themselves to petty comments, and insults, as they are truly at a loss for real dialog.


This surely seem the case in this post my friend. There are many REAL points we could be going over, but youd rather blather on about nonsense, and basically take cheap shots at people.

I never said I had any panic, or anything of the like???? i provided a video for intelligent minds to watch, and discuss .Apparently you missed the boat ..
you are being lied to about the value of your useless fiat currency plain and simple ..no rant just a fact


I never said i feared all, or any of this? You are again projecting something, other than what has occurred..... you seem to be quite adept at this though. Again ill remember to expect this from you in the future


what a waste of time you have turned out to be! at first i thought, hmmm maybe we have someone here that has a talent?? Now i know it, for what it is, quit projecting and lying,your very poor at it
you do it frequently

 

[palerider]

What does what Truth bringer said, or did, have to do with MY post?Maybe you have an issue with her? Take it up with her. Or perhaps your tired of her manhandling you in the threads? I dont know ask her about what she posted not me.

You said:

"Private BANKERS own the reserve and it aint federal at all take a look at the links this gal gave ya they rock take a look at Aaron Russo's Freedom to Fascism"


Is this or is this not an endorsement by you of the information that she posted? I have come to see the pointlessness of asking truth bringer any sort of direct question. It invariably results in a dodge supported by nothing more than insult and name calling. If you percieve that as "manhandling" then you have little concept what debate actually is.

Yes i provided you with a VERY informative link, and based on your ludicrous one dimensional answer, ill find it safe to assume you didnt watch the vider else you would have had any one of a hundred other ACTUAL points, instead of the lame ass excuse of a a response that you gave!!

"ludicrous one dimensional". I asked you what the information means to you. Exactly how is that either ludicrous or one dimensional. This is a forum for talking to people about issues. I asked you what is causing you anxiety in the fact that the fed is a quasi governmental organization. Can you answer, or is posting a video or a link in lieu of speaking for yourself the extent of your conversational skills?

Choosing agin to insult, rather than engage in actual dialog. This seems to be your S.O.P. though since my arrival, so ill in the future know to expect this type of reponse from you. It is those who truly cannot bring anything of value to the table that have to lower themselves to petty comments, and insults, as they are truly at a loss for real dialog.

What insult? A bunch of information was posted and neither of you stated what the signifigance of it was to you. It must mean something to you or you would not have put it here. What does it mean to YOU?

This surely seem the case in this post my friend. There are many REAL points we could be going over, but youd rather blather on about nonsense, and basically take cheap shots at people.

Yeah. The only important point is what it means to you, in your own words and you don't seem to be up to stringing a few words together to say what it is that is causing you anxiety.

I never said I had any panic, or anything of the like???? i provided a video for intelligent minds to watch, and discuss .Apparently you missed the boat ..
you are being lied to about the value of your useless fiat currency plain and simple ..no rant just a fact

Do you believe that our currency would be of some specific value if it were backed by gold rather than paper? The value of gold is a figment of our imaginations as much as the value of paper.

I never said i feared all, or any of this? You are again projecting something, other than what has occurred..... you seem to be quite adept at this though. Again ill remember to expect this from you in the future

Something here disturbs you, or there is something here that you favor. Your statement that we are being "lied" to would indicate that it disturbs you and yet, you have not said how or why.

what a waste of time you have turned out to be! at first i thought, hmmm maybe we have someone here that has a talent?? Now i know it, for what it is, quit projecting and lying,your very poor at it
you do it frequently

I asked a question. Can you answer or not? Your whole rant has been nothing more than a dodge of a very simple question.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

doublespeak

 

[Truth-Bringer]

You seem to be saying that the sky is falling. I look out my window, however, and see that it is still up there.

What a little hypocrite you are, Shetland pony rider. By all accounts, you seem to be saying the U.S. is under massive attack by terrorists. But by your own response, I can also look out my window and see that the sky is still up there... So there must be no danger at all.

Now you've really given us some interesting "logic" here - "if I can't see it happening in my immediate vicinity, there's no danger."

How many times will I expose your fallacious "reasoning" on this forum, Shetland pony rider? I guess as long as you keep running your arrogant mouth.

Exactly what is the source of your panic?

The potential for great financial harm. Since the government has lied in the past, as I will show below. Here are a couple of good articles on the potential dangers:

Good article on fiat money problems in France - again, notice the similarities with our present climate:

http://www.kitcocasey.com/displayArticle.php?id=1140

Another good article:

The U.S. Economy is not Depression-Proof

http://www.mises.org/story/1008

Truth bringer, once again, cut and pasted information

The act of copying and pasting information has nothing to do with the validity of the information so presented. Are you arguing that if someone copies and pastes "2+2=4" that it isn't valid because it was copied and pasted? Once again you demonstrate an absurd, fallacious position. Are we to take you seriously, arrogant one? Do you honestly expect that to happen when you try and float this utter nonsense as a valid argument? ROTFL....AGAIN.

and you have provided a link, but have completely failed to give any indication of what this means to you other than the typical libertarian rant that "they" are lying to you.

Sometimes they actually do lie, Shetland pony rider. I'm sure that is probably shocking for you to consider. But, after all, your master Bush lied about being a conservative, didn't he? LOL.

Quotes from the government and media prior to and during the Great Depression:

Lie, lie, lie. Deny, deny, deny.

September 1929
“There is no cause to worry. The high tide of prosperity will continue.”
- Andrew W. Mellon, Secretary of the Treasury.

October 14, 1929
“Secretary Lamont and officials of the Commerce Department today denied rumors that a severe depression in business and industrial activity was impending, which had been based on a mistaken interpretation of a review of industrial and credit conditions issued earlier in the day by the Federal Reserve Board.”
– New York Times

December 5, 1929
“The Government’s business is in sound condition.”
– Andrew W. Mellon, Secretary of the Treasury

December 28, 1929
“Maintenance of a general high level of business in the United States during December was reviewed today by Robert P. Lamont, Secretary of Commerce, as an indication that American industry had reached a point where a break in New York stock prices does not necessarily mean a national depression.”
– Associated Press dispatch.

January 13, 1930
“Reports to the Department of Commerce indicate that business is in a satisfactory condition, Secretary Lamont said today.”
– News item.

January 21, 1930
“Definite signs that business and industry have turned the corner from the temporary period of emergency that followed deflation of the speculative market were seen today by President Hoover. The President said the reports to the Cabinet showed the tide of employment had changed in the right direction.”
– News dispatch from Washington.

January 24, 1930
“Trade recovery now complete President told. Business survey conference reports industry has progressed by own power. No Stimulants Needed! Progress in all lines by the early spring forecast.”
– New York Herald Tribune.

March 8, 1930
“President Hoover predicted today that the worst effect of the crash upon unemployment will have been passed during the next sixty days.”
– Washington dispatch.

May 1, 1930
“While the crash only took place six months ago, I am convinced we have now passed the worst and with continued unity of effort we shall rapidly recover. There is one certainty of the future of a people of the resources, intelligence and character of the people of the United States – that is, prosperity.”
– President Hoover

June 29, 1930
“The worst is over without a doubt.”
– James J. Davis, Secretary of Labor.

August 29, 1930
“American labor may now look to the future with confidence.”
– James J. Davis, Secretary of Labor.

September 12, 1930
“We have hit bottom and are on the upswing.”
– James J. Davis, Secretary of Labor.

October 16, 1930
“Looking to the future I see in the further acceleration of science continuous jobs for our workers. Science will cure unemployment.”
– Charles M. Schwab.

October 20, 1930
“President Hoover today designated Robert W. Lamont, Secretary of Commerce, as chairman of the President’s special committee on unemployment.”
– Washington dispatch.

October 21, 1930
“President Hoover has summoned Colonel Arthur Woods to help place 2,500,000 persons back to work this winter.”
– Washington dispatch.

November 1930
“I see no reason why 1931 should not be an extremely good year.”
– Alfred P. Sloan, Jr., General Motors Co.
January 20, 1931

“The depression has ended.”
– Dr. Julius Klein, Assistant Secretary of Commerce.
August 12, 1931

“Henry Ford has shut down his Detroit automobile factories almost completely. At least 75,000 men have been thrown out of work.”
– The Nation.

July 21, 1932
“I believe July 8, 1932 was the end of the great bear market.”
– Dow Theorist, Robert Rhea.

What is it about the information that has been posted that causes you anxiety? Describe, in your own words, what it is that you fear in all this.

What I would be a little concerned about if I were you is the potential for the U.S. to become completely socialistic in nature when another depression occurs. Obviously, we saw massive government growth and a limitation of individual rights during the Great Depression. The next one will take us even further down the road - definitely to a point of no return. The fool Republicans that you support have done nothing but grow the government larger under your master Bush, and they would of course take the liberal position and increase the size and scope of government to deal with any potential financial crises.

As a side note, I don't see many people idiotic enough to argue vehemently for the federal reserve bankers - some of the richest, most self-indulgent people in the world. Which says to me, Shetland pony rider, that you are either a shill or a fool.

There is clear evidence private banks lobbied the government for the creation of the federal reserve. Why do private businesses lobby the government? Only for financial benefit - and they received one great financial benefit with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act. Why should a private corporation gain such a benefit? There is simply no logical reason.

What are you, Shetland pony rider? A banker? A lawyer? A debt-collector? A tax agent? A federal employee? Or are you just one of the biggest dweebs on the planet with too much time on his hands?

 

[Truth-Bringer]

You said:

"Private BANKERS own the reserve and it aint federal at all take a look at the links this gal gave ya they rock take a look at Aaron Russo's Freedom to Fascism"

And that's absolutely right. You want the court cases and Congressional testimony? Here they are:

"The Federal Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities..." -- Lewis vs. United States 9th Circuit 1992

"The regional Federal Reserve banks are not government agencies. ...but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." -- Lewis vs. United States, 680 F. 2d 1239 9th Circuit 1982

"The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the International bankers." -- Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. Pa)

"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions. They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers" -- Congressional
Record 12595-12603 -- Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency (12 years) June 10, 1932

"These 12 corporations together cover the whole country and monopolize and use for private gain every dollar of the public currency..." -- Mr. Crozier of Cincinnati, before Senate Banking and Currency Committee - 1913

Is this or is this not an endorsement by you of the information that she posted? I have come to see the pointlessness of asking truth bringer any sort of direct question. It invariably results in a dodge supported by nothing more than insult and name calling. If you percieve that as "manhandling" then you have little concept what debate actually is.

Shetland pony rider, you are so far in denial it's pathetic. A discussion with you is virtually pointless since you're living in some kind of delusional dream world. Dodge??? ROTFLMAO!!!! I've dodged nothing. You're the moron throwing up Ad Hominem's, Straw Men, and non sequiturs and pretending they're legitimate. I've exposed your fallacies and your distortions numerous times over. YET YOU WON'T STICK TO ONE POINT AND YOU INSTEAD START JUMPING AROUND ALL OVER THE FORUM RUNNING FROM ME. You have nothing but distortions, falsehoods, obfuscation and outright lies. You are one seriously delusional fool.

Question - are you scared to just stay in one thread and debate me? Why all this elusiveness? Why can't you stay on point? Is it because you know you're a fraud?

 

[Truth-Bringer]

doublespeak

I think Shetland pony rider actually has "doublethink." He's so delusional he doesn't even know what's going on inside his own brain.

 

[Truth-Bringer]

A few more quotes for the doubters

"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin... Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with a flick of the pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again... Take this great power away from them and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in... But, if you want to be the slaves of the bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit." - Sir Josiah Stamp, Governor of the Bank of England in the 1920s and the second richest man in Britain in the 1920's, speaking at the University of Texas in 1927.

"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" -- Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependant on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." -- Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863

"There is no subtler, or surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debase the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which only one man in a million is able to diagnose."
— John Maynard Keynes

-Mr. Eccles, former Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank was asked by Patman," …. how did you get the money to buy these two billion dollars of government bonds." Eccles replied, " We created it." "Out of what?" Patman asked. Eccles said, "Out of our right to issue credit money."

"The entire taxing and monetary systems are hereby placed under the U.C.C. (Uniform Commercial Code)" -- The Federal Tax Lien Act of 1966

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States" -- Sen. Barry Goldwater (Rep. AR)

"It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." -- Henry Ford

"[Every circulating FRN] represents a one dollar debt to the Federal Reserve system." -- Money Facts, House Banking and Currency Committee

"A great industrial nation is controlled by it's system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world--no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men." --President Woodrow Wilson

"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." --Robert H. Hamphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank

"The Federal Reserve banks, while not part of the government,..." -- United States budget for 1991 and 1992 part 7, page 10

"The Federal Reserve bank buys government bonds without one penny..." -- Congressman Wright Patman, Congressional Record, Sept 30, 1941

"The Federal Reserve system pays the U.S. Treasury 020.60 per thousand notes --a little over 2 cents each-- without regard to the face value of the note. Federal Reserve Notes, incidentally, are the only type of currency now produced for circulation. They are printed exclusively by the Treasury's Bureau of Engraving and Printing, and the $20.60 per thousand price reflects the Bureau's full cost of production. Federal Reserve Notes are printed in 01, 02, 05, 10, 20, 50, and 100 dollar denominations only; notes of 500, 1000, 5000, and 10,000 denominations were last printed in 1945." --Donald J. Winn, Assistant to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve system

"Neither paper currency nor deposits have value as commodities, intrinsically, a 'dollar' bill is just a piece of paper. Deposits are merely book entries." -- Modern Money Mechanics Workbook, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, 1975

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board administers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money" -- Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923

"When you or I write a check there must be sufficient funds in out account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money." -- Boston Federal Reserve Bank

"There is a distinction between a 'debt discharged' and a debt 'paid'. When discharged, the debt still exists though divested of it's charter as a legal obligation during the operation of the discharge, something of the original vitality of the debt continues to exist, which may be transferred, even though the transferee takes it subject to it's disability incident to the discharge." --Stanek vs. White, 172 Minn.390, 215 N.W. 784

 

[Truth-Bringer]

What is it about the information that has been posted that causes you anxiety? Describe, in your own words, what it is that you fear in all this.

To expand a little further...

I would say some things you might call a "clue" would be the decision by the government to stop publishing the M3 Money Multiplier and the announcement at the G8 summit that the U.S. dollar is overvalued by 30 to 50% and that the other countries made it very clear that it would have to be devalued at some point. Again, those are things you might call "clues" - if you're capable of using your brain. But, by all means, please keep your head in the sand.

And you may deride my posted articles all you like - but that's simple-mindedness. Again, I'm sorry I don't have time to type up pages of original material for you, Shetland Pony Rider, as I'm sure you'd read every word of what I type... But the article on the history of fiat currency in France, shows how things can get out of hand very quickly. Once you cross over into crisis mode, and we almost did during Carter's administration, you can have a complete breakdown fairly rapidly. Carter destroyed confidence in the dollar by freezing all Arab assets in the U.S. after the hostage crisis. That led to a loss of confidence in all paper instruments and a huge increase in the price of gold, and to a lesser extent silver. You also had the Soviet grain embargo, with the Soviets in debt to Western bankers to the tune of $80 billion. Again, there was a fear that Carter would pressure other nations to embargo or freeze soviet assets - meaning less confidence for paper assets. We had passed into stage 2 inflation and stage 3 was a possibility.

Most economists don't take the factor of Velocity, the speed at which dollars change hands, into consideration, yet it's a very important aspect when you consider an entire world made up of fiat currency systems - and was very important during this near meltdown.

Smart money will continue to leave the dollar for other assets as the U.S. will not change its foreign policy, and therefore continue to breed terrorist attacks against it, which will require more military debt spending. The amount of currency being printed is no longer known, and this will also create a loss of faith in the value of the dollar. And of course you have the fact that the government will continue to grow in size, government spending will continue to go up, and the national debt will continue to increase and more tax revenue will be lost to interest payments.

The long term picture is not rosy. Again, feel free to keep your head in the sand all you like, but my savings and retirement accounts are kept in foreign currencies. Like Bruce Covner, I bet against the government. And I'll always win those bets. I've already made a nice little chunk thanks to Bush's decision to print money out the wazoo.

 

[palerider]

What a little hypocrite you are, Shetland pony rider. By all accounts, you seem to be saying the U.S. is under massive attack by terrorists. But by your own response, I can also look out my window and see that the sky is still up there... So there must be no danger at all.

Since I can show you photos of a crater where the trade towers used to be, I am able to show clear evidence of an attack on the us. I have asked a couple of times for one of you to simply state what you believe all the infomration that you have presented means. In your own words.

Now you've really given us some interesting "logic" here - "if I can't see it happening in my immediate vicinity, there's no danger."

I have asked for one of you to describe the danger that you percieve.

How many times will I expose your fallacious "reasoning" on this forum, Shetland pony rider? I guess as long as you keep running your arrogant mouth.

So far, none, but do keep trying.

The potential for great financial harm. Since the government has lied in the past, as I will show below. Here are a couple of good articles on the potential dangers:

Describe the harm in your own words. Stating that the government has lied, doesn't mean that there is potential for great danger. That, my dear, is by definition, constitutes an ad hominem attack. You like to throw that phrase around, but clearly you don't know what it means. I asked you what the danger was, and you respond that the government has lied before as if pointing out that the government has lied in the past is evidence of potential for great financial harm.

Good article on fiat money problems in France - again, notice the similarities with our present climate:

I don't live in france, and the us economy, governmental structure, and legal system are quite different than those found in france. Once again. Describe the potential for "great financial harm" in your own words. Do you have any of your own words that are more intellectually stimulating than name calling and insult hurling.

The U.S. Economy is not Depression-Proof

No one has said that it is. Please describe, in your own words, how you believe the information you have cut and pasted from other sources demonstrates that we might be entering a depression.

The act of copying and pasting information has nothing to do with the validity of the information so presented. Are you arguing that if someone copies and pastes "2+2=4" that it isn't valid because it was copied and pasted? Once again you demonstrate an absurd, fallacious position. Are we to take you seriously, arrogant one? Do you honestly expect that to happen when you try and float this utter nonsense as a valid argument? ROTFL....AGAIN.

Of course it is fine to copy and paste information, I have done it myself. BUT. I am prepared to have a dialogue with anyone about the information that I brought here, or anywhere else. I understand the information and can speak in my own words about it. Cutting and pasting "2+2=4" is fine but if someone asked what you believe the infomation means, you better well be prepared to discuss why you believe it is accurate. In other threads you have cut and pasted "2+3=4" when the question was not name two numbers when when added together equal 4. Cutting and pasting information that does not answer a specific question is not ok.

I have asked for either one of you to describe what your initial post and his subsequent post mean to you personally in your own words expressed with your own ideas. There is no amount of cutting and pasting that you can do that will answer to that question. It is beginning to look like neither one of you understands the information well enough to discuss it in your own words and ideas.

Sometimes they actually do lie, Shetland pony rider. I'm sure that is probably shocking for you to consider. But, after all, your master Bush lied about being a conservative, didn't he? LOL.

I have never suggested that the government doesn't lie. I have asked for either one of you to describe in your own words what the information you have brought here means to you.

Since the is not whether the government has ever lied or not, your posts represent you cutting and pasting "2=2=4" in response to a question that has no bearing on either the numbers two or four or the process of addition. I could counter by cutting and pasting quote after quote where truthful information came from the governemtn but they would not prove that the government always tells the truth any more than yours prove that the government always lies.

What I would be a little concerned about if I were you is the potential for the U.S. to become completely socialistic in nature when another depression occurs. Obviously, we saw massive government growth and a limitation of individual rights during the Great Depression. The next one will take us even further down the road - definitely to a point of no return. The fool Republicans that you support have done nothing but grow the government larger under your master Bush, and they would of course take the liberal position and increase the size and scope of government to deal with any potential financial crises.

That was because of policies that were instituted by a president with socialist leanings. Not because of the depression itself.

As a side note, I don't see many people idiotic enough to argue vehemently for the federal reserve bankers - some of the richest, most self-indulgent people in the world. Which says to me, Shetland pony rider, that you are either a shill or a fool.

I am not arguing for or against federal reserve bankers. I am trying to get one of you to discuss an issue using your own intellect and you are quickly convincing me that you simply are not up to the task.

There is clear evidence private banks lobbied the government for the creation of the federal reserve. Why do private businesses lobby the government? Only for financial benefit - and they received one great financial benefit with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act. Why should a private corporation gain such a benefit? There is simply no logical reason.

OK. I won't argue that point. Again, what do you believe is the danger to you or the US economy. In your own words.

What are you, Shetland pony rider? A banker? A lawyer? A debt-collector? A tax agent? A federal employee? Or are you just one of the biggest dweebs on the planet with too much time on his hands?

I am none of those.