Why I think Bush if right on Immigration

HA

I believe the land was stolen. But I also believe the US belongs to the US. I don't sugar coat the history and wrap it in myths. I look at it for what it is in a hobbesian world.

The only way you can be treasonous to the US is to attempt to create a myth rather than work with the truth. I love the US and think it is the best nation in the world, but I will not lie about it or push forward myths. I think we cheapen our history and the uniqueness of our nation when we do so.

If you had listened to people like me, you would have known that I would care very little about what the world in general thinks and look to what is best for the US, regardless of racist people who happen to be infesting some nearby trailer park.

Read a Goddamn book. It's people like you with your ignorant narrowminded opinions that are throwing this country away which such stupid labels as 'racists'. If you knew a Goddamn thing, social cohesion has more to do with national sucess, pride, liberty than almost anything. You call me a racist because you're ignorant. Why the hell do you think our political system is so screwed up today? HUH? Tell me why you think this government can barely manage the country today. You don't know because you're narrowminded and ignorant. It was morons like you who are responsible for much of the Bull Sh- America has been forced to endure because they were stupid and shallow enough to label clear-headed, intelligent people as "Racists". Go and look into 1965 how your idiot friend Ted Kennedy who is probably the single worst man in American History butchered our great immigration system for the sole purpose of political gain for his party that has largely contributed to the creation of two Americas. Learn the facts moron before you come on here and label me a racist because you have no f- ing idea what you're talking about or who the hell it is you're talking to, you stupid coward. Go ahead, you want to debate me? You won't win but I want you to debat me because I love showing everyone how thoughtless, inconsiderate, one-sided and careless people like you really are. Let it begin. Debate me and try and prove to us that being racist (even though most people ARE racist) is unwise and wrong.
 
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A! anybody with spanish language skills
care to call 800-882-2005 and tell us what you think?

Oh yea, anybody have any idea as to how one finds out who is paying for a given toll-free number?

& thanks

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
and as we all know
the emperor is NAKED!
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It was stolen, even Lincoln thought so. Thats good enough for me.

Well if what Abe says is all that is required to set your beliefs in stone, may I enlist you in a real, to the death fight against the wealthy and corporations? Or is your belief system more of the religious pick and chose type?

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."
-- U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864
(letter to Col. William F. Elkins)
 
The contempt for other races first starts with the love and admiration of your own but I am more of a monoculturalist politically than a political racist.

The legal stance of the KKK then?

Personally, I don't see how our race is much better than the next. We all have done our great things and our terrible things.
 
I believe we have a genetic self-survival instinct to be suspicious of anyone outside of our own tribe initially.
 
A lot of men also have the desire to have sex with a lot of women they see in the street, however, we have overcome our instinct to have sex with them regardless of what they feel. Instincts are something that often need to be overcome.
 
Hmmm

A lot of men also have the desire to have sex with a lot of women they see in the street, however, we have overcome our instinct to have sex with them regardless of what they feel. Instincts are something that often need to be overcome.

Without animosity towards Sublime, this is the very reasoning that firstly led to many of the Major Western problems in the first place. I do not care to pursue a discussion on how one race is superior to others but statistically speaking, the Western World has done 85% of all major worthwhile things and has influenced the world in a way we can collectively hardly imagine. However, most of this was done of course pre-WW2 and not post. Coincidence or consequence? Not sure. Anyhow, I firmly believe foreigners in Western Land, especially Europe have rusted and dulled the societal gears and also forced our governments to play with our heads. Multiculturalism has caused many many problems and created many misgivings and grievances. I will personally not accept or entertain anything short of the understanding that multiculturalism has led the Western world into barbarism and misery and has stapled another firm yoke of control.
 
Without animosity towards Sublime, this is the very reasoning that firstly led to many of the Major Western problems in the first place. I do not care to pursue a discussion on how one race is superior to others but statistically speaking, the Western World has done 85% of all major worthwhile things and has influenced the world in a way we can collectively hardly imagine.QUOTE]

Through the Dark Ages, the Arab world saved most of the knowledge we had accumilated before then, apart from a few monostarys that Europeans continually tried to ransack. Pre the dark ages, the Arab world was equal with us on its knowledge of medicine, and other sciences.
 
Immigrants, even illegal immigrants bring a vitality to the US that cannot be denied (as I will explain later).

If it cannot be denied, then you do not need to explain.

Regardless, it can be denied, and I will proceed to do so once I see the basis for your assertion.

The shortage in unskilled labour is estimated to run in the hundreds of thousands of workers “per year”. For instance, construction workers produced 185,000 jobs annually. Workers earn between 30K and 50K a year. Employers in masonry and dry walling cannot find enough young Americans to do the work (remember we are at 4.5% unemployment).

One could just as easily argue that this is a problem created by immigration, not one to be solved by it. Americans have increasingly sought higher education since the 60's because that is increasingly the only option available to them now that manual labor fields are being made economically uncompetitive by mass immigration.

Restaurants are in worse shape. Their field employs 12.5 million workers, the nations largest private sector employment. Their demand is expected to grow at a rate of 15% between 2005 and 2006. Native born work force (teenagers/adults between 16 to 24 years old) will not expand at all, and overall native born workforce will only expand 10%. So the question is, are older Americans willing to bus tables and flip hamburgers? Some might be, but odds are that the majority will not.

The restaurant industry is growing because population is growing. Immigration accounts for the vast majority of population growth; the last set of statistics I saw had the American population actually slowly declining without immigration, although those statistics were admittedly outdated. At any rate, this is another case of a problem caused by, not solved by, immigration.

A majority of older Americans will not work those jobs at current wages. Wages will have to go up to encourage employment in those fields. Last I heard, that is a positive thing.

Mexico to the South of us does have unskilled labour to spare. For instance the move from subsistence agriculture to economies that require investment capital means more labour will be free’d up, couple that with the failure of Mexico to provide jobs for its population is also an issue. Even if Mexico would suddenly cease its corruption and economic errors and become a first world country tomorrow, the US would still have a large job shortage.

Do you mean job or labor shortage? If there's a job shortage then logically all immigration (legal and illegal) should be cut off immediately.

Even legal immigrants who account for 2/3’s of the total immigrant flux, are not eligible for welfare benefits.

I suspect you have this reversed; legal immigrant visas are capped at roughly half a million last I heard, while annual illegal immigration exceeds twice that.

Labour force participation of foreign born men is higher than native born. Illegal immigrant men have the highest job percentage, roughly 94%. Immigrants are less likely than natives to be unemployed.

All of which could be taken to suggest that immigrants do, in fact, put Americans out of work.

Whether immigrants consume more in government benefits than they contribute in taxes, can be calculated after a measure. Consder that they pay as much as the comparable poor and unskilled. They pay sales and property taxes, just as native or legally born residents to. Thus contributing equally for schooling.

Everyone who buys anything in America pays the sales tax, including tourists. This is not a suitable basis for granting them citizenship.

And they only pay property tax if they own property. So far as I know, most do not. That immigrants pay property tax is irrelevant -- the cost of the services for which property taxes pay would decline without immigrants, so a rough equilibrium would be achieved.

And even if all of this is true (it is not), economics represents only one end of the equation when it comes to immigration. Admittedly, neocon apologists' for mass immigration don't care about anything else, but that does not change the existential fact that there are very real non-economic reasons to oppose mass immigration, ranging from the sociocultural to the environmental.

Justinian, in my short time here that is the most blatantly racist post I have come across.

"Mexican" is not a race.

Do you think your lilly white behind belongs here more than they do simply because you were born here? BS! The land this country was founded on was stolen by white men from native Americans. NEVER FORGET IT!
All that being said, I think this is another example of putting ones proverbial finger in the dike to try to solve a problem that has grown completely out of control. But the focus should not be solely on one group of illegals, but on them entirely. Whether they be hispanic or asian or african, or european...or martian, it doesnt matter. Either you were born here, or you go through the correct immigration guidelines set in place, or we send you home unless there is good reason such as political asylum.

The land was not "stolen," it was "conquered." The Amerindians are not indigenous to this area, either, having immigrated here from east Asia many years before. (I assume you won't acknowledge anyone as indigenous who is not living within a mile-radius of the place from which their unicellular ancestors crawled from the primordial ooze while the earth was still cooling).

Whether or not you're willing to admit it, conquest is legitimate. Case in point: I defy you to name a single nation whose borders were not fixed by it. We do not invalidate any of their national sovereignties off-the-bat because of it.

It was stolen, even Lincoln thought so. Thats good enough for me.

Hell, Lincoln contributed to it. As I recall, he signed the single largest writ of execution in American history, all American Indians.

And again, to say the land was "stolen" rather than "conquered" is silly and revisionist. How does one go about "stealing" land? You can't move land, you can only move people onto it and off of it. Doing so is the definition of conquest.

Justinian, I will still remind you as has Baldar that your comments are blatantly racist and I wonder how you would feel if it was white Canadians spilling across the border, come on the record and answer that question for me.

Once again, "Mexican" is not a race. You're going to have to invent a new epithet for him.

The problem with the scenario you pose is that it wouldn't happen. Canadians won't spill across the border because they have a workable First World society. The only way they would do so is if they didn't, in which case he would criticize them.

As for America being stolen...yeah it was. You may make yourself feel good sitting in the trailer park by thinking it was purchased, but lets take a look at the Lousiana purchase for instance, it was purchased from the French, who had no rightful ownership of the land in question as it had been settled millenia before by numerous Native American tribes.

And then conquered by the French. We finished the job.

I think you're the first person in the world who has insisted on using, as a derogative, a word that is actually less derogatory than the actual history would suggest.
 
I'd hate to be living in a trailer park and reading this diatribe.
Build the fence. Stem the flow, then come talk to me about how we can fix this most imminent national challenge.
 
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