Would you consider this hate speech?

[jb_1430]

If you mean that to imply that Islam is inherently more violent than Christianity, think again. The Bible is full of stories of the past, but also instructions for the present and predictions for the future. I sample just a few here:

(Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
(Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
(2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
(Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)
(Zephaniah 1:2-6 NLT)

Your reliance on the OLD testament, avoidance of the NEW testament and even using the Torah with the verse from Zephaniah, kind of demonstrates my point.

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Considering this, do you all now acknowledge that the Koran is full of nothing more than hate speech?

Do you really expect people to make an informed decision about the whole Koran on the basis of the 47 words you posted that supposedly came out of it? You didn't quote the scriptures, why?

Do you suppose that a person could find 47 words in the Bible that would be pretty hateful?

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

BTW -- I'm not Christian

The quotes you posted were subjected to "spin". Thanks so much, Christian or not, this gives us a glimpse into you.

 

[ArmChair General]

Anyone seen the debate between Reza Aslan (Muslim), and Sam Harris (Atheist), about this very topic?


Its a great one. I personally think Sam won, but Reza did a great job explaining Islam.


You can find it on youtube if your interested.

 

[jb_1430]

The quotes you posted were subjected to "spin". Thanks so much, Christian or not, this gives us a glimpse into you.

The quotes were altered to demonstrate a point that flew about a thousand feet over your head.

 

[jb_1430]

Oh, yes. It says right there in the Qu'ran - Muslims of the 21st Century, go kill Americans!

The Qu'ran is a historical document that shows what Muslims were told to do by their God - hundreds of years ago.

?????? "UNTIL NO ONE BUT ALLAH IS WORSHIPPED"

Bin Laden

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped, Allah who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.
...
This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."
http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm

5. Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islâmic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikûn (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salât (Iqâmat-as-Salât), and give Zakât, then leave their way free. Verily, Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.[]
http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobe009.htm#5

Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."

39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do.[]
http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobe008.htm#39

 

[Mare Tranquillity]

The quotes were altered to demonstrate a point that flew about a thousand feet over your head.

Baloney, the quote by USMC vs the quotes from the Koran were strikingly different in meaning and intent. One could take scripture from the Bible and do the exact same thing by changing the object of discussion.

This highlights the problem of trying to live one's life by the obscure, anachronistic, and contradictory things written in old books without actually thinking about how the world has changed in the last couple of thousand years. Not just the Bible, but all the old books.

 

[jb_1430]

This highlights the problem of trying to live one's life by the obscure, anachronistic, and contradictory things written in old books without actually thinking about how the world has changed in the last couple of thousand years. Not just the Bible, but all the old books.

Well, I think that was his point regarding Islamic doctrine. I dont really see a similiar "problem" resulting from the Christian bible. Even the jihad on abortion clinics seems to have passed. And even they would be hardpressed to support their actions with scripture. And Christianity doesnt have a requirement that no one but Jesus be worshiped OR a Christian caliphate to rule the world OR the law to be imposed.

 

[mustardayonnaise]

Your reliance on the OLD testament, avoidance of the NEW testament and even using the Torah with the verse from Zephaniah, kind of demonstrates my point.

Is the Old Testament part of the bible or not? Do you discount the authority of the Old Testament? Seems Jesus wouldn't be too happy with you...

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Matt. 5.17

 

[mustardayonnaise]

Well, I think that was his point regarding Islamic doctrine. I dont really see a similiar "problem" resulting from the Christian bible. Even the jihad on abortion clinics seems to have passed. And even they would be hardpressed to support their actions with scripture. And Christianity doesnt have a requirement that no one but Jesus be worshiped OR a Christian caliphate to rule the world OR the law to be imposed.

If you're a trinitarian, it's called the First Commandment. For non-trinitarians, try
John 14:6 - 'Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

 

[jb_1430]

If you're a trinitarian, it's called the First Commandment. For non-trinitarians, try
John 14:6 - 'Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Your demonstrating my point. That invites the individual to take the path "to the father". The other is an instruction to the believers to kill the non believers if they dont take the path.

 

[mustardayonnaise]

Your demonstrating my point. That invites the individual to take the path "to the father". The other is an instruction to the believers to kill the non believers if they dont take the path.

The point I'm making is that yes, Christianity does have a commandment to worship Jesus alone. That and that anyone can isolate violent and hateful passages from either the Koran or the Bible and make it seem like that's all the book contains, but to do this is simply dishonest.

 

[jb_1430]

The point I'm making is that yes, Christianity does have a commandment to worship Jesus alone. That and that anyone can isolate violent and hateful passages from either the Koran or the Bible and make it seem like that's all the book contains, but to do this is simply dishonest.

Never said anything about what "all the book contains", and my point is there simply is no comparison.
But carry on with the hear no evil...see no evil...speak no evil bit.

 

[vyo476]

?????? "UNTIL NO ONE BUT ALLAH IS WORSHIPPED"

Historical documents can be misleading. Remember that one we wrote a few hundred years ago with the line, "All men are created equal," when our government still condoned and supported a legal slave system?

 

[vyo476]

The quotes were altered to demonstrate a point that flew about a thousand feet over your head.

No, we got the point. Social conservatism is based in oversimplification, so it was pretty easy to understand. Our points are the ones that are flying over your head, as evidenced by the fact that all you seem capable of doing is posting quotes from the Qu'ran and the men who use it for violence, and pretending that a few poached quotes from an interpretative document and the violent interpretations of the outspoken terrorists constitutes an empirical argument against an entire religion.