Census workers collecting GPS coords for your front door

Little-Acorn said:
One possible use for this GPS data occurs to me.

Gerrymandering. The manipulation of the borders of voting districts, to assure that Congressman X of the 45th congressional district, will always have a solid Democrat-voting majority. Makes districts look like paint splatters on a map sometimes, but hey, no one said it would be pretty, just effective.

Can also be used to CURE gerrymandering, of course, but give me a break.

Give me a list of addresses, party registrations from voter-reg data (freely available), and now the GPS coords of each house, and I'll write you a computer program that produces Democrat majorities (or Republican majorities, take your choice) for EVERY state that votes by congressional districts.

How? Easy.

You want California to elect more Democrat congressmen to the U.S. House of Reps, than Republican congressmen? I'll set up most of the districts to have 55% Dem majorities, and a smaller number that have 95% Republican majorites. Even if Repubs outnumber Dems in the state, I'll give you 60 districts that elect Dem congressmen while only 20 elect Repubs.

With EXACT knowledge of the physical location of each Repub and Dem voter, I'll guarantee delivery of the exact results you want. Some of the districts might stretch from San Diego to Geyserville, winding thru one neighborhood after another to pick off Republican households while avoiding Democrat ones, but do you care?
Click to expand...

Redistricting is a possibility, no doubt. With an exact knowledge of where the Democrats and Republicans live, the legislators will be able to fine tune their gerrymandering and stay in power indefinitely.

We did try to put an end to the legislators drawing their own boundaries in California, but it didn't pass. Check that out here.


And here is another example of how electronic data is readily available to anyone, whether they are a part of the government or not. Did you contribute to pass or not pass the gay marriage bill? If you did, then your name is on this list. Check it out.
 
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Pandora said:
Who here has participated in a census before? I have never been asked to do it before and I am reading the kinds of questions they ask and it bothers me.

95 percent of the questions they ask are none of their business.
http://2010.census.gov/2010census/pdf/2010ACSnotebook.pdf
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From what I recall, if you read the instructions carefully, it says something like, "we use this information to insure your community receives its fair share of government spending programs". In other words, if you live in a poor neighborhood, your town council will qualify for extra benefits. If you are in a rich neighborhood, you get nothing!

You also have the option of not answering all those questions. If you read the small print it says you are required to give your name, address and number of people in the family. The rest is optional.

You can join my revolution against the invasion of privacy and lie on all the questions - except the ones required by law. Tell them you are a Pacific Islander, or anything that you want. As you say, none of their business.

And for those who think I am being paranoid, remember the internment of the Japanese-Americans who were rounded up after Pearl Harbor! It has happened before and can happen again.
 
Hobo1 said:
From what I recall, if you read the instructions carefully, it says something like, "we use this information to insure your community receives its fair share of government spending programs". In other words, if you live in a poor neighborhood, your town council will qualify for extra benefits. If you are in a rich neighborhood, you get nothing!

You also have the option of not answering all those questions. If you read the small print it says you are required to give your name, address and number of people in the family. The rest is optional.

You can join my revolution against the invasion of privacy and lie on all the questions - except the ones required by law. Tell them you are a Pacific Islander, or anything that you want. As you say, none of their business.

And for those who think I am being paranoid, remember the internment of the Japanese-Americans who were rounded up after Pearl Harbor! It has happened before and can happen again.
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Well in regards to the poor versus rich aspect, I will say that in my experience as a city council member, we pushed projects through in the areas that had more income, simply because of that. While in an area where gravel roads are the norm, it has been the more astute areas that got paved first.
 
Bunz said:
Well in regards to the poor versus rich aspect, I will say that in my experience as a city council member, we pushed projects through in the areas that had more income, simply because of that. While in an area where gravel roads are the norm, it has been the more astute areas that got paved first.
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I also was a city council member and you are correct. The rich always have the power of persuasion with their wallets. I was referring to programs administered by the Feds and passed down and administered to the States. These would involve programs such as Department of Education programs, and HUD programs such as Enterprise Zones.

Other than in general I do not like the Federal Government paying for and administering social programs, I don't begrudge helping pull people out of poverty or trying to improving our inner cities.

However, gathering what amounts to statistically information by asking every individual to give personal data on the Census forum amounts to invasion of privacy. There are a lot of sampling techniques that can give the government the same data it needs without intruding on the privacy of every individual by name.
 
Hobo1 said:
From what I recall, if you read the instructions carefully, it says something like, "we use this information to insure your community receives its fair share of government spending programs". In other words, if you live in a poor neighborhood, your town council will qualify for extra benefits. If you are in a rich neighborhood, you get nothing!

You also have the option of not answering all those questions. If you read the small print it says you are required to give your name, address and number of people in the family. The rest is optional.

You can join my revolution against the invasion of privacy and lie on all the questions - except the ones required by law. Tell them you are a Pacific Islander, or anything that you want. As you say, none of their business.

And for those who think I am being paranoid, remember the internment of the Japanese-Americans who were rounded up after Pearl Harbor! It has happened before and can happen again.
Click to expand...

I am hoping they forget about me again. I have never been asked to do one before. If they make me Ill have to do it because there is a 5000.00 fine if you dont.

I will just lie as much as possible, I do not advocate lying but in this case I do not want accorn or what ever name they changed themselves to, to have information like what time I leave my house for work and what time I return. Those freaks would rob me!
 
Pandora said:
I am hoping they forget about me again. I have never been asked to do one before. If they make me Ill have to do it because there is a 5000.00 fine if you dont.

I will just lie as much as possible, I do not advocate lying but in this case I do not want accorn or what ever name they changed themselves to, to have information like what time I leave my house for work and what time I return. Those freaks would rob me!
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hate to point this out to you, but as normal you have your facts off

its no more then a 100 buck fine, and giving fake info is 500 bucks. worse fine you could get is 1000 and this if you try to give them bad advice with intent to throw of the numbers...thats 1000.. so like if you said the black neighbors did not live in the home and it was vacent so you dont need to stop there...but they did live there you just did not want them counted or something,

"221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers

# (a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.

# (b) Whoever, when answering questions described in subsection (a) of this section, and under the conditions or circumstances described in such subsection, willfully gives any answer that is false, shall be fined not more than $500.

# (c) Notwithstanding any other provision of this title, no person shall be compelled to disclose information relative to his religious beliefs or to membership in a religious body.

Sec. 222. Giving suggestions or information with intent to cause inaccurate enumeration of population "

I am guessing you got the 5000 from Fox news ....
 
pocketfullofshells said:
I am guessing you got the 5000 from Fox news ....
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No, not FOX news. Those damn creeps at CBS news. I should have known I can not trust them! Read the last line from the story. That is where I got my information. I will be careful trusting CBS for anything after today! Not sure I can trust The Washington Times after this either.

Thanks for the tip Pocket.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/18/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5095844.shtml


Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann told the Washington Times that she and her family will not be fully filling out the 2010 census forms.

Bachmann, a Republican, said her family will only be indicating the number of people in the household, because "the Constitution doesn't require any information beyond that."

Bachmann believes the upcoming census to be "very intricate" and "very personal" and expresses concerns about ACORN's involvement in the data collection. The community organizing program came under scrunity after charges of voter registration fraud during the 2008 presidential elections.

"I think what the threat of ACORN would be deluding the ballot box and the effectiveness of our vote," she said. "They will be in charge of going door to door and collecting data from the American public, this is very concerning."

Bachmann also expressed frustration at the president's backing for ACORN, saying he has supplied $8.4 billion to ACORN since he has come into office, a number that far surpasses the $53 million given in the past 15 years.

"ACORN has received $53 million from 1994 to today, but now, since President Obama has come into office, he is making available $8.5 billion – with a 'b' - to ACORN, an organization that is repeatedly under indictment for voter fraud in multiple states across the country," Bachmann said. "This is the last organization that should have the taxpayer's wallet open to them but unfortunately, under President Obama, he is multiplying the amount of money available to them."

Bachmann has claimed the $8.5 billion available multiple times, but it should be noted that the St. Petersburg Times' affiliated fact check Web site, Politifact.com, disputes its accuracy.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Bachmann may be in trouble if she fails to fill out the entire census. Spokeswoman Shelly Lowe told the Washington Times that anyone over the age of 18 must fill out all the questions and any such person who refuses to answer "any of the questions" faces a $5,000 fine.

By the way, where did you get your fine numbers? I have tried to find other figures but I have not as of yet.

If your information is right, I can refuse to do the census and just pay $100.00
I hope you are right, I would rather pay a hundred bucks and keep my information safe from accorn.
 
From what I can tell, section "§ 221. Refusal or neglect to answer questions; false answers" of the Census Act was passed by Congress as of Jan. 8, 2008. Browsing the FindLaw web site, the Supreme Court has not even approached the issue of which questions must be answered.

Clearly you are better not giving information (up to $100 fine), than lying to the census taker or on the form ($500 fine).

The Constitutional purpose for the census is to determine the number of Representatives that a State is entitled to receive. The rest of the questions are often vague and unanswerable - for example, is Barack Obama a Negro?

Numerous groups and politically visible individuals are clearly upset about this invasion of privacy. The legal argument is: the only valid question that must be answered is the number of people in a household.

The regulations may state a fine can be levied, but this has not been court tested - so right now it is only ink on paper. Not until the Supreme Court has acted on this matter will we really have an answer. Considering that so many questions are almost rhetorical and a clear, positive answer cannot be given (such as race) I don't see how these fines can be upheld.

The other issue is how they can collect a fine of "up to $100"? I believe they must take you to court. Do you think the Attorney General is going to take millions of people to court for $100? Never happen.

Sure, they may scare you with a fine, but sometimes a little civil disobedience is called for. We must resist this continual invasion of privacy by the federal government or the next step will be Big Brother of George Orwell's1984 fame.
 
Pandora said:
Who here has participated in a census before? I have never been asked to do it before and I am reading the kinds of questions they ask and it bothers me.


95 percent of the questions they ask are none of their business.



http://2010.census.gov/2010census/pdf/2010ACSnotebook.pdf
Click to expand...

Good grief! Is that an electronic copy of the document they're sending to families who are included in the census? It must be 100 pages long!
 
PLC1 said:
Good grief! Is that an electronic copy of the document they're sending to families who are included in the census? It must be 100 pages long!
Click to expand...

I don’t know, maybe it will be in small print?

Don’t you think we have a right not to answer some of these questions?

I have never had to do one before and I do not want to.

I do not mind saying how many people live in my house but that is all I am willing to say.


I was talking to my cousin today, her husband sold his mothers house a several months ago because his mother died. The census called him a few weeks ago to ask information on the house. Plumbing exc. He hung up, they called his other number and he hung up again. Then they wrote him a letter (a supervisor from the census) to say it was important information they needed.

First off, how did the Census get his two private phone numbers, the house was never his and he sold it several months ago. Second why are they harassing so badly about one stupid house.

I am just not comfortable with this whole thing.
 
Pandora said:
No, not FOX news. Those damn creeps at CBS news. I should have known I can not trust them! Read the last line from the story. That is where I got my information. I will be careful trusting CBS for anything after today! Not sure I can trust The Washington Times after this either.

Thanks for the tip Pocket.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/06/18/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5095844.shtml


Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann told the Washington Times that she and her family will not be fully filling out the 2010 census forms.

Bachmann, a Republican, said her family will only be indicating the number of people in the household, because "the Constitution doesn't require any information beyond that."

Bachmann believes the upcoming census to be "very intricate" and "very personal" and expresses concerns about ACORN's involvement in the data collection. The community organizing program came under scrunity after charges of voter registration fraud during the 2008 presidential elections.

"I think what the threat of ACORN would be deluding the ballot box and the effectiveness of our vote," she said. "They will be in charge of going door to door and collecting data from the American public, this is very concerning."

Bachmann also expressed frustration at the president's backing for ACORN, saying he has supplied $8.4 billion to ACORN since he has come into office, a number that far surpasses the $53 million given in the past 15 years.

"ACORN has received $53 million from 1994 to today, but now, since President Obama has come into office, he is making available $8.5 billion – with a 'b' - to ACORN, an organization that is repeatedly under indictment for voter fraud in multiple states across the country," Bachmann said. "This is the last organization that should have the taxpayer's wallet open to them but unfortunately, under President Obama, he is multiplying the amount of money available to them."

Bachmann has claimed the $8.5 billion available multiple times, but it should be noted that the St. Petersburg Times' affiliated fact check Web site, Politifact.com, disputes its accuracy.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Bachmann may be in trouble if she fails to fill out the entire census. Spokeswoman Shelly Lowe told the Washington Times that anyone over the age of 18 must fill out all the questions and any such person who refuses to answer "any of the questions" faces a $5,000 fine.

By the way, where did you get your fine numbers? I have tried to find other figures but I have not as of yet.

If your information is right, I can refuse to do the census and just pay $100.00
I hope you are right, I would rather pay a hundred bucks and keep my information safe from accorn.
Click to expand...

United States Code, Title 13 (Census), Chapter 7 (Offenses and Penalties), SubChapter II

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/13C7.txt
 
Pandora said:
I don’t know, maybe it will be in small print?

Don’t you think we have a right not to answer some of these questions?

I have never had to do one before and I do not want to.

I do not mind saying how many people live in my house but that is all I am willing to say.


I was talking to my cousin today, her husband sold his mothers house a several months ago because his mother died. The census called him a few weeks ago to ask information on the house. Plumbing exc. He hung up, they called his other number and he hung up again. Then they wrote him a letter (a supervisor from the census) to say it was important information they needed.

First off, how did the Census get his two private phone numbers, the house was never his and he sold it several months ago. Second why are they harassing so badly about one stupid house.

I am just not comfortable with this whole thing.
Click to expand...

just a idea for you, did you think maybe its not realy the Census? I dont think they just call you, but you know who would? scam artist trying to get info.
 
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