Citizen Murdoch

[Dr.Who]

HUHHH. . . I'm not in favor of wiretapping anyone, by anyone.

However, It seems that there is a huge difference between a supposedly "NEWS" organization interfering with private citizens' privacy, and the law!

I would have to agree. When the newspaper did it they did it by guessing the passwords of cell phone users then listening to the free airwaves. When the gov does it they go onto your property and connect devices to you wires. When the newspaper does it is is illegal and immoral and when the gov does it is is legal because they themselves called it legal. When the newspaper does it the gov is there to protect us when the gov does it there is no protector.

 

[Dr.Who]

Why do you continually try to analyze the mind of the left when you don't understand it at all.

Fox News is a favorite target simply because they shade the news and exhibit hypocrisy. Look at Jon Stewart's Daily Show. He often shows news clips collected from Fox demonstrating the hypocrisy of Fox.

Jon Stewart is worse than Fox - granted he is not a news show. But I would suppose you would have as much of a problem with his hypocrisy? Right?

For example, in a news show, not on a comedy show, Stewart said:

"Who are the most consistently misinformed media viewers?" Stewart asked Wallace. "The most consistently misinformed? Fox, Fox viewers, consistently, every poll." he was vehement about his statement. Which he later retracted when the liberal Politifact's Truth-o-meter rated his statement as flat out wrong. When it comes to hypocracy and bias there is plenty to go around but scientific analysis of news shows indicates that Fox is equal to CNN in bias. (was it just an honest mistake or was it him being blind? Well, the "every poll" turned out to be two polls and both of them rated Fox News as average while fox opinion pieces were rated as resulting in viewers who were sometimes better informed and sometimes less informed with a slight lean in the direction of being more informed. I don't see how a person can misconstrue that data as an honest mistake)

So why did your comment only address Fox's bias? could it be that your answer too was biased?

The media has had bias since before the inception of the constitution when it was enshrined as an institution. We cannot eliminate the bias but we can expect journalistic standards which are sorely lacking in too many media outlets. then we can watch opposing outlets to get a balanced view.

 

[steveox]

Right on cue, the first body. England has been a police state for centuries.
"...Sean Hoare, the former News of the World showbusiness reporter who was the first named journalist to allege that Andy Coulson was aware of phone hacking by his staff, has been found dead .

Hoare, who worked on the Sun and the News of the World with Coulson before being dismissed for drink and drugs problems, was said to have been found at his Watford home.

Hertfordshire police would not confirm his identity, but said in a statement: "At 10.40am today [Monday 18 July] police were called to Langley Road, Watford, following the concerns for the welfare of a man who lives at an address on the street. Upon police and ambulance arrival at a property, the body of a man was found. The man was pronounced dead at the scene shortly after.

"The death is currently being treated as unexplained but not thought to be suspicious. Police investigations into this incident are ongoing."

There was an unexplained delay in the arrival of forensics officers at the scene.

more at http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/jul/18/news-of-the-world-sean-hoare

Comrade Stalin

What you think America is now? Its a Police state. You cant speak at council meetings anymore.And did you just see a protester tried to attack Murdoch ? Theyre idoits around the world even in America.
http://news.yahoo.com/man-rushes-rupert-murdoch-hearing-160244558.html

 

[Lagboltz]

Jon Stewart is worse than Fox - granted he is not a news show. But I would suppose you would have as much of a problem with his hypocrisy? Right?

No, that is not right at all.
I was responding to TruthSeeker who said,

You leftists want to squash and silence any and all dissenting opinions, and Fox News is your favorite target simply because they expose the lies and hypocrisy of the left.

I think TruthSeeker was acting contrary to his namesake. It is ridiculous to assert that about the mind of the leftist. Being a liberal I see fellow liberals target Fox for two reasons: 1) they are overly conservative 2) because of the hypocrisy of some commentators and the guests they bring on, and not because they expose hypocrisy of the left. That is a silly assertion.

For example, in a news show, not on a comedy show, Stewart said:

"Who are the most consistently misinformed media viewers?" Stewart asked Wallace. "The most consistently misinformed? Fox, Fox viewers, consistently, every poll." he was vehement about his statement. Which he later retracted when the liberal Politifact's Truth-o-meter rated his statement as flat out wrong. When it comes to hypocracy and bias there is plenty to go around but scientific analysis of news shows indicates that Fox is equal to CNN in bias. (was it just an honest mistake or was it him being blind? Well, the "every poll" turned out to be two polls and both of them rated Fox News as average while fox opinion pieces were rated as resulting in viewers who were sometimes better informed and sometimes less informed with a slight lean in the direction of being more informed. I don't see how a person can misconstrue that data as an honest mistake)

I was citing Stewart as an example of a place to find very clearly presented examples of hypocrisy of Fox. I was not stating that Stewart is not biased nor absent of hypocrisy. I think Stewart is largely fair, but sometimes he is not. Stewart had the courage to quickly retract when he was proven wrong.

Stewart knocks Democrats and Obama when they are clearly out of line. There have been many occasions where Stewart focuses on the folly of Democrats.

Does Fox ever mention the folly of Republicans? This is not a smart-ass challenge. I simply don't know because I seldom watch Fox. From the few times I watched Hannity and Beck it does not seem to be the case.

So why did your comment only address Fox's bias? could it be that your answer too was biased?

That was the subject matter in that particular post.

The media has had bias since before the inception of the constitution when it was enshrined as an institution. We cannot eliminate the bias but we can expect journalistic standards which are sorely lacking in too many media outlets. then we can watch opposing outlets to get a balanced view.

I have always thought that myself.


From your post I see that you don't understand the mind of the left either. Sure, we have our bumper-sticker slogan mentality just like the right, but don't assume that about me.

 

[Openmind]

I would have to agree. When the newspaper did it they did it by guessing the passwords of cell phone users then listening to the free airwaves. When the gov does it they go onto your property and connect devices to you wires. When the newspaper does it is is illegal and immoral and when the gov does it is is legal because they themselves called it legal. When the newspaper does it the gov is there to protect us when the gov does it there is no protector.

However, the government "generally" does it for a valid reason, mostly safety or based on a safety concern, or to get "bad guys."

The news media does it for "fame and money," with no respect for anything else.

I think it should it them where it hurts more. . .their wallet.

And I'm very glad that Murdoch and co have already lost $1billion in this scandal coming to light.

I think the innocent people who lost their jobs because of this should get big settlements. Now is the time for a class action suit from the former employees of the now defunct "News World."

 

[Dr.Who]

No, that is not right at all.
I was responding to TruthSeeker who said,

I think TruthSeeker was acting contrary to his namesake. It is ridiculous to assert that about the mind of the leftist. Being a liberal I see fellow liberals target Fox for two reasons: 1) they are overly conservative 2) because of the hypocrisy of some commentators and the guests they bring on, and not because they expose hypocrisy of the left. That is a silly assertion.


I was citing Stewart as an example of a place to find very clearly presented examples of hypocrisy of Fox. I was not stating that Stewart is not biased nor absent of hypocrisy. I think Stewart is largely fair, but sometimes he is not. Stewart had the courage to quickly retract when he was proven wrong.

Stewart knocks Democrats and Obama when they are clearly out of line. There have been many occasions where Stewart focuses on the folly of Democrats.

Does Fox ever mention the folly of Republicans? This is not a smart-ass challenge. I simply don't know because I seldom watch Fox. From the few times I watched Hannity and Beck it does not seem to be the case.


That was the subject matter in that particular post.

I have always thought that myself.


From your post I see that you don't understand the mind of the left either. Sure, we have our bumper-sticker slogan mentality just like the right, but don't assume that about me.

It is true that I don't understand the mind of the left.

And I would have no need to discuss anything with you if I already knew what you would say.

But my post was a challenge to you to see if you have criticized the left as well as the right. Have you? I was not suggesting that you do no see the bias of Stewart, but wanted to know if you point it out.

And since Fox has an equal number of liberal talking heads as conservative ones you can be sure that the folly of pubs does get mentioned. I agree that overall the station is biased to the right in some hard to pinpoint ways. Which is no doubt why scientific analysis shows it to be no more biased than CNN.

But since they are both biased why is it that I never see the left on this forum criticize media bias on the left? If I am missing it please show me.

 

[Dr.Who]

However, the government "generally" does it for a valid reason, mostly safety or based on a safety concern, or to get "bad guys."

The news media does it for "fame and money," with no respect for anything else.

A few years ago the left was claiming (a lot) that the us gov was wiretapping US citizens on US soil without a warrant. Which as far as I know was false.

Today you are claiming that the gov generally does it for valid reasons.

I believe the latter statement but not the first.

 

[Lagboltz]

It is true that I don't understand the mind of the left.

And I would have no need to discuss anything with you if I already knew what you would say.

But my post was a challenge to you to see if you have criticized the left as well as the right. Have you? I was not suggesting that you do no see the bias of Stewart, but wanted to know if you point it out.

I have not criticized the left on this forum because too many already say what I think. I know the right has criticized the right, (RINO, etc.) I deplore the Dem sex scandals as much as the GOP's. My criticism of Democrats is for not pushing for an end to subsidies of all sorts and earmarks. I know both of these are fairly insignificant, but it is a token stance. I severely criticize Obama for giving in and extending the Bush tax cuts, and not drawing down fast enough in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't think the latter criticisms are what you had in mind.

And since Fox has an equal number of liberal talking heads as conservative ones you can be sure that the folly of pubs does get mentioned. I agree that overall the station is biased to the right in some hard to pinpoint ways. Which is no doubt why scientific analysis shows it to be no more biased than CNN.

I am curious to know who the liberal talking heads are.

But since they are both biased why is it that I never see the left on this forum criticize media bias on the left? If I am missing it please show me.

That is a very interesting question. I see little media bias on the left (other than Fox.) But you have to understand that I am left and what you might see as bias, I may see as good sense. You may see Fox as fair and balanced because what you hear makes good sense to you. Our differing perspectives have to be understood if we are to push this country in the right direction. I am very pessimistic that that will happen. What both liberals and conservatives do on this forum and elsewhere is to create thoughts that they think the other side has (strawmen) and then criticize them for it like TruthSeeker did. That just goes nowhere in a debate.

 

[ProudLefty]

A few years ago the left was claiming (a lot) that the us gov was wiretapping US citizens on US soil without a warrant. Which as far as I know was false.

Today you are claiming that the gov generally does it for valid reasons.

I believe the latter statement but not the first.

The US was wiretapping on US soil without warrants/ They were doing it in a big way. They still are, and probably even worse. My hope was that Obama would stop it but I believe he has made it worse.

This is not a good thing, but of course we have to spend our time on the stupid **** the Republicans keep throwing out there, and we have no time left to deal with the real issues. Drone attacks on the soil of other nations is happening. Off shore prisons and torturing is happening.

We have serious issues going on and we are bogged down on busting unions, defunding NPR, working on light bulbs, and making sure corporations get their tax breaks for the corporate jet.

 

[BigRob]

The US was wiretapping on US soil without warrants/ They were doing it in a big way.

What is this based on?

They still are, and probably even worse. My hope was that Obama would stop it but I believe he has made it worse.

Why would Obama stop a perfectly legal action that plays a vital role in national security? As for your claim that the US is wiretapping (and I assume you are talking about US citizens) on US soil, what are you basing it on that it is such a large program?

This is not a good thing, but of course we have to spend our time on the stupid **** the Republicans keep throwing out there, and we have no time left to deal with the real issues.

"Other stupid ****"...like the budget? Legislation on energy and jobs? Which?

Drone attacks on the soil of other nations is happening.

Yes...and has been expanded by the party in power..so what?

Off shore prisons and torturing is happening.

Based on what?

We have serious issues going on and we are bogged down on busting unions, defunding NPR, working on light bulbs, and making sure corporations get their tax breaks for the corporate jet.

You mean Congress is a political body! Who knew?

 

[ProudLefty]

...

You mean Congress is a political body! Who knew?

Congress has stopped being a political body. Politics is the art of the possible, and that has been stopped cold,.

 

[BigRob]

Congress has stopped being a political body. Politics is the art of the possible, and that has been stopped cold,.

Just because the ideas and party you support (I assume at least from your name) cannot simply pass whatever they want at this point does not mean politics is dead is Congress.

 

[ProudLefty]

Just because the ideas and party you support (I assume at least from your name) cannot simply pass whatever they want at this point does not mean politics is dead is Congress.

Over the years I have moved from being a Goldwater Republican to where today I believe President Obama is right of center and I want a left of center president. During all those years I have never seen a political body be successful with an unbending position. That is not a trait that is rewarded by voters.

Trees bend in the wind. If they didn't they'd be uprooted and killed in the first big storms they faced. Politicians are no different.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Jon Stewart is worse than Fox - granted he is not a news show. But I would suppose you would have as much of a problem with his hypocrisy? Right?

For example, in a news show, not on a comedy show, Stewart said:

"Who are the most consistently misinformed media viewers?" Stewart asked Wallace. "The most consistently misinformed? Fox, Fox viewers, consistently, every poll." he was vehement about his statement.

Yeah.....that'd be the down-side o' relying on polls.

Maybe Stewart would have been better-served relying on....​

The STATS.​

 

[BigRob]

Over the years I have moved from being a Goldwater Republican to where today I believe President Obama is right of center and I want a left of center president. During all those years I have never seen a political body be successful with an unbending position. That is not a trait that is rewarded by voters.

Trees bend in the wind. If they didn't they'd be uprooted and killed in the first big storms they faced. Politicians are no different.

I think this all depends. Politicians can be very successful sticking to their guns on certain issues for a certain amount of time.

But I would agree that never bending, over a long period of time, will ultimately not win you a ton of votes.