Conservative hypocrisy

[dogtowner]

Johnny, the retardlicans love redistribution of wealth

Sadly from the poor to the rich

And lots of poor idiots cheer them on like turkeys voting for thanksgiving

provide an example of money being taken from "the poor" to the rich please.

 

[Iolo2]

provide an example of money being taken from "the poor" to the rich please.

There is a system called 'capitalism' that does that: the poor create all the value and the rich steal it, then use some of it to brainwash the mugs who ask such questions as the above.

 

[BigRob]

There is a system called 'capitalism' that does that: the poor create all the value and the rich steal it, then use some of it to brainwash the mugs who ask such questions as the above.

If you are "poor" in the United States, the odds are fairly good that you are not employed...in which case you are not "creating" anything -- except more work for those who have to support you.

Now, I am going to assume you mean the "working class" (and somehow this equates to poor I guess) "create" all the value that is "stolen" by the "rich." Such a claim is just absurd. What would this "working class" create if someone else did not create an opportunity for them to gain employment?

If I have an idea for a business, assume all the responsibility of creation, debt servicing etc, how can you possibily argue that I am just "stealing value" from the people who I employ? Yes, they provide value...and I pay them for it. What more is expected of me? The simple fact is this. If I didn't take the risk on starting the business to begin with, there would be no job to offer the "working class", and no "value" for them to provide.

The simple fact is that the more risk you assume, the greater the potential reward. There is little risk assumed in just taking a job....there is a ton of risk assumed in putting up hard earned money in an effort to create a business.

 

[dogtowner]

There is a system called 'capitalism' that does that: the poor create all the value and the rich steal it, then use some of it to brainwash the mugs who ask such questions as the above.

no example of money being redistributed.

But to examine your statement...
the poor go to work in a facility provided for them to perform a job that was given to them and for which they are compensated using materials provided for them to act upon.

what did they create that they might have created on their own ? thats right, nothing.

 

[Iolo2]

If you are "poor" in the United States, the odds are fairly good that you are not employed...in which case you are not "creating" anything -- except more work for those who have to support you.

Now, I am going to assume you mean the "working class" (and somehow this equates to poor I guess) "create" all the value that is "stolen" by the "rich." Such a claim is just absurd. What would this "working class" create if someone else did not create an opportunity for them to gain employment?

If I have an idea for a business, assume all the responsibility of creation, debt servicing etc, how can you possibily argue that I am just "stealing value" from the people who I employ? Yes, they provide value...and I pay them for it. What more is expected of me? The simple fact is this. If I didn't take the risk on starting the business to begin with, there would be no job to offer the "working class", and no "value" for them to provide.

The simple fact is that the more risk you assume, the greater the potential reward. There is little risk assumed in just taking a job....there is a ton of risk assumed in putting up hard earned money in an effort to create a business.

How on earth, if you don't have a 'reserve army of labour' would you hold down wages? Unemployment is basic to capitalism, as you know. Working people create all value, as Ricardo and the classical economist agreed - which is kept from you. If you run an insane system you need madmen to thieve and twice everyone. all that proves is that you have an insane system. Who needs lice?

 

[Iolo2]

no example of money being redistributed.

But to examine your statement...
the poor go to work in a facility provided for them to perform a job that was given to them and for which they are compensated using materials provided for them to act upon.

what did they create that they might have created on their own ? thats right, nothing.

Nobody is talking about redistribution chum. We are not talking about slices of the loaf: we want the bakery.

 

[BigRob]

How on earth, if you don't have a 'reserve army of labour' would you hold down wages?

How on earth would you not have a "reserve army of labor" if we capitalists didn't go out and create jobs for them to work?

Unemployment is basic to capitalism, as you know.

Unemployment is part of every system.

Working people create all value, as Ricardo and the classical economist agreed - which is kept from you.

I own a business -- am I not a "working person". If anything, this system lets me keep more of the "value" that I created when I started this whole company. Yes, I pay other people to add value, but they are trading labor for wages.

If you run an insane system you need madmen to thieve and twice everyone. all that proves is that you have an insane system. Who needs lice?

Most socialists I have met are either unemployed, or think they deserve more than get without working for it. Not saying this is you -- but that is the idea of it I have in my head.

Our system is not insane -- anyone who wants to can be a success.

 

[BigRob]

Nobody is talking about redistribution chum. We are not talking about slices of the loaf: we want the bakery.

Then go create one.

 

[Iolo2]

How on earth would you not have a "reserve army of labor" if we capitalists didn't go out and create jobs for them to work?



Unemployment is part of every system.



I own a business -- am I not a "working person". If anything, this system lets me keep more of the "value" that I created when I started this whole company. Yes, I pay other people to add value, but they are trading labor for wages.



Most socialists I have met are either unemployed, or think they deserve more than get without working for it. Not saying this is you -- but that is the idea of it I have in my head.

Our system is not insane -- anyone who wants to can be a success.

Then go create one.

We already have. We just want it back. why should your thieving masters have it?

 

[BigRob]

We already have. We just want it back. why should your thieving masters have it?

You have created nothing -- you freely traded your labor for wages in an establishment created by someone else, with tools provided by someone else, and with capital provided by someone else. Did you put up any money to buy the space, the ovens, equipment? Did you front any money to pay the rent? Did you create the recipes for what is being cooked? Did you procure the supplies needed to actually cook it? Did you pay for the marketing to sell your product? Yet somehow, you convince yourself that you did -- and therefore the bakery is yours.

What you clearly want -- is something for nothing.

 

[Iolo2]

You have created nothing -- you freely traded your labor for wages in an establishment created by someone else, with tools provided by someone else, and with capital provided by someone else. Did you put up any money to buy the space, the ovens, equipment? Did you front any money to pay the rent? Did you create the recipes for what is being cooked? Did you procure the supplies needed to actually cook it? Did you pay for the marketing to sell your product? Yet somehow, you convince yourself that you did -- and therefore the bakery is yours.

What you clearly want -- is something for nothing.

'Freely' my American Elbow! We make everything and do everything except thieve and destroy, which we leave to your master and their cruddy little wars and lies. We did all the things you mention and everything else too. What's in this for you, then?

 

[Cruella]

I don't know - I'm a socialist myself. I know what brainwashed slaves sound like though - like you.

Your the perfect example of what "ideological subversion" looks like.

Marxism-Leninism ideology is being pumped into the soft heads of at least three generations of American students without being challenged or counterbalanced by the basic values of Americanism; Yuri Bezmenov 1984

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

If you are "poor" in the United States, the odds are fairly good that you are not employed...in which case you are not "creating" anything -- except more work for those who have to support you.

Now, I am going to assume you mean the "working class" (and somehow this equates to poor I guess) "create" all the value that is "stolen" by the "rich." Such a claim is just absurd. What would this "working class" create if someone else did not create an opportunity for them to gain employment?

Oh dear.

One third of the US workforce $9 per hour or less.

They are poor and in work

The US takes money off poor people in taxes and redistributes it to rich bankers so that when they lose in the casino the poor have to pick up the tab

The rich exploit labour too as lolo so eloquently describes

The right live in cloud cuckoo land believing that the poor are poor because they feckless and the rich rich because they are hardworking

That is by and large a lie that is swallowed by idiots

If I have an idea for a business, assume all the responsibility of creation, debt servicing etc, how can you possibily argue that I am just "stealing value" from the people who I employ? Yes, they provide value...and I pay them for it. What more is expected of me? The simple fact is this. If I didn't take the risk on starting the business to begin with, there would be no job to offer the "working class", and no "value" for them to provide.

The simple fact is that the more risk you assume, the greater the potential reward. There is little risk assumed in just taking a job....there is a ton of risk assumed in putting up hard earned money in an effort to create a business.

 

[BigRob]

'Freely' my American Elbow!

Did someone hold a gun to your head and force you to accept that job?

We make everything and do everything except thieve and destroy, which we leave to your master and their cruddy little wars and lies.

I don't even know what you are talking about here. It sounds more like an effort to make some political statement?

We did all the things you mention and everything else too. What's in this for you, then?

No you didn't. The ONLY thing that you did was provide your labor -- which you were compensated for.

 

[BigRob]

Oh dear.

One third of the US workforce $9 per hour or less.

They are poor and in work

$9/hr is NOT below the poverty line.

The US takes money off poor people in taxes and redistributes it to rich bankers so that when they lose in the casino the poor have to pick up the tab

Seeing as how basically 50% of the country pays no federal income tax -- and frankly the majority of people in the $9/hr category fall into the group. That said, the big banks were bailed out with federal tax dollars. I find it interesting that someone who pays no federal taxes would argue that "their" tax dollars are being misused -- seeing as how they didn't pay any to begin with.

The rich exploit labour too as lolo so eloquently describes

Yes...we so exploit those people by giving them a job. They would all be so better off not working.

The right live in cloud cuckoo land believing that the poor are poor because they feckless and the rich rich because they are hardworking

There are of course people who are poor through no real fault of their own -- but it simply cannot be denied that opportunities exist for them to better their own situation -- if they take advantage of it.