I could possibly have been wrong.

[Gipper]

Well your results are in. Dorothy and Irrational, I hope you are both sitting down for I have bad news.

The Liberal Cancer has metastasized to every organ in your body and has taken complete control of your brain. I am sorry to say that even my great healing powers or no match for the deadly disease you have contracted.

Sorry but you are destined to life of terrible suffering. The only quick solution is seeking the assistance of the good doctor pictured below. I will forward his contact information and please let him know you were referred by me so you will get a special deal. Good luck.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Well your results are in. Dorothy and Irrational, I hope you are both sitting down for I have bad news.

The Liberal Cancer has metastasized to every organ in your body and has taken complete control of your brain. I am sorry to say that even my great healing powers or no match for the deadly disease you have contracted.

Sorry but you are destined to life of terrible suffering. The only quick solution is seeking the assistance of the good doctor pictured below. I will forward his contact information and please let him know you were referred by me so you will get a special deal. Good luck.

OOPS...you seem to have neglected to provide the year that your quoted article was written...surely that was just a over sight on your part...surely you weren't trying to mislead/misquote/ignore the fact that this was written prior to the highest fuel cost of our history...that health insurance has risen by leaps and bounds that the economy hadn't tanked during this period...that we were in the midst of the Silicon Valley BOOM for technological era of my lifetime...surely you weren't trying to HIDE THAT LITTLE TID BIT OF FACTRUAL INFORMATION
Clipped from your very own article

Quote:
September 21, 1990
How "Poor" are America's Poor?
by Robert Rector
Backgrounder #791

What...no comment on your error...no words of remorse for your blatant attempt to misconstrue the facts...Oh, I'm just so disappointed in you...I really thought you were made of better STUFF I'm ignoring your insults as I appreciate your wicked {really wicked sense of humor...like minds thinking alike don't scare me any} LMAO

 

[dogtowner]

The plan is to combine the existing wasteful universal care system that taxpayers already foot the bill for of hodgepodge expensive ER visits, Medicaid and the VA into one clerical system that focuses on way less expensive preventative care. This system would be recommended by any financial adviser for his/her client as it will save billions in just the next couple of years and trillions over a longer haul. Me likey..

What isn't the plan is to subsidize private corporations with taxpayer money when they will still not cover everyone who needs it, will jack rates at their whim and will spend billions in advertising and CEO bonuses. Those costs, by revamping our current public system will not even be in the discussion.

We learned our lesson on corporate wellfare [insurance subsidies apply] from Wallstreet. We learned that big greedy pigs bite the hands that slop the troughs. The taxpayers are still wincing from that miscalculation.

You know they looked at the relative costs of ER visits for ear infections vs taxpayer funded "free health insurance" for po folks and determined that the latter would far more expensive. Reason sort of like 'if you build it, they will come'. And considering we dont have the docs to see them, it hurts everyone.

 

[Gipper]

OOPS...you seem to have neglected to provide the year that your quoted article was written...surely that was just a over sight on your part...surely you weren't trying to mislead/misquote/ignore the fact that this was written prior to the highest fuel cost of our history...that health insurance has risen by leaps and bounds that the economy hadn't tanked during this period...that we were in the midst of the Silicon Valley BOOM for technological era of my lifetime...surely you weren't trying to HIDE THAT LITTLE TID BIT OF FACTRUAL INFORMATION
Clipped from your very own article

What...no comment on your error...no words of remorse for your blatant attempt to misconstrue the facts...Oh, I'm just so disappointed in you...I really thought you were made of better STUFF I'm ignoring your insults as I appreciate your wicked {really wicked sense of humor...like minds thinking alike don't scare me any} LMAO

See my Sweet Dorothy this is an example of the overpowering mental disease that is Liberal Cancer.

It does not matter the date. Do you really think in 20 years things have changed much?

Please see this...http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed091109b.cfm

And if it does not help, please seek the advice of the good doctor.

 

[PLC1]

Gipper insults are a bit rich from someone who asserts without any basis that the US is the greatest country on earth. That is the kind of comment you would expect from a 5 year old.

The reality is the the US is a hugely aggressive nation that has stolen everything it has either from native Americans or other countries that it relentlessly attacks.

It is totally dependent on oil but is desperately short of it so is cooking up reasons to attack and take over the middle east.

It is populated by fat ignorant right wing idiots who allegedly voted George Bush in!Twice!!!

It is a country that happliy turns a blind eye to paedophilia if the perp is a priest or the alleged king of pop.

It is mired in religious fundamentlism with a heavy accent on mentalism

The world hates America and I promise you it is nothing to do with jealousy as your leaders pretend it is ( they know suckers will believe that).

It is because America is a right wing fundamentalist war mongering nation that happily wrecks the lives of millions of people in its pursuit of empire.

Most Americans are too stupid or too right wing to care.

That is why the world hates the US. A cess pit of racism, obesity, money obsession, superficialty and vomit inducing hypocrisy.

And here I thought the America hating liberal was just a right wing stereotype.

 

[Gipper]

And here I thought the America hating liberal was just a right wing stereotype.

Well you have been proven wrong right here on the HOP.

America hating is a common disorder held by recent and current attendees of the g-schools and amongst the pop smoking hippie freak types...

If someone hates something with a passion, they usually discontinue any involvement with that which they hate. Yet, leftists do not leave the good ole USA.


Why?

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

See my Sweet Dorothy this is an example of the overpowering mental disease that is Liberal Cancer.

Oh, come now...you're such a sweet talker...but it would appear that your fixated upon the symptoms that are more prevalent in your think tank group

It does not matter the date. Do you really think in 20 years things have changed much?

My sides ache...from the amount of humor that your little statement provided me...HOLY BAT CRAP BATMAN...if you don't stop pulling my leg, I'm going to walk with a noticeable limp!!!

And if it does not help, please seek the advice of the good doctor.

Hmmm, are you going to offer to pay my doctor bill...seems only fair since you are the one recommending that I need one...and I don't have any medical coverage at the present time...

 

[Gipper]

Liberals and progressives continue to believe more needs to be done for America's poor. Of course, they do not live in realty and facts are dirty filthy lies.

The facts below are ignored by the left. You see it is most important to increase the ranks of the poor so that more and more are dependent on big government and of course, vote Dem (this bit of knowledge is well known to knowledgeable people and liberal elites, but not to the rank and file lib/progressive).

Various government reports contain the following facts about persons defined as "poor" by the Census Bureau:

* Nearly 40 percent of all poor households actu*ally own their own homes. On average, this is a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio.
* Eighty-four percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, in 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
* Nearly two-thirds of the poor have cable or satellite TV.
* Only 6 percent of poor households are over*crowded; two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.
* The typical poor American has as much or more living space than the average individual living in most European countries. (These comparisons are to the average citizens in foreign countries, not to those classified as poor.)
* Nearly three-quarters of poor households own a car; 31 percent own two or more cars.
* Ninety-eight percent of poor households have a color television; two-thirds own two or more color televisions.
* Eighty-two percent own microwave ovens; 67 percent have a DVD player; 73 percent have a VCR; 47 percent have a computer.
* The average intake of protein, vitamins, and minerals by poor children is indistinguishable from that of children in the upper middle class. Poor boys today at ages 18 and 19 are actually taller and heavier than middle-class boys of similar age were in the late 1950s. They are a full inch taller and ten pounds heavier than the GIs who stormed the beaches of Normandy during World War II.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Liberals and progressives continue to believe more needs to be done for America's poor. Of course, they do not live in realty and facts are dirty filthy lies.

The facts below are ignored by the left. You see it is most important to increase the ranks of the poor so that more and more are dependent on big government and of course, vote Dem (this bit of knowledge is well known to knowledgeable people and liberal elites, but not to the rank and file lib/progressive).

Oh, man...I just hate it when you neglect to post a link...I do so enjoy busting your chops for your misinterpretations of the facts. But you do really well in that regard...your alter ego Rush Limbaugh will be soooo very proud of you...you might even get a certificate for the top all-around-high-achiever for his clan

 

[Gipper]

Oh, man...I just hate it when you neglect to post a link...I do so enjoy busting your chops for your misinterpretations of the facts. But you do really well in that regard...your alter ego Rush Limbaugh will be soooo very proud of you...you might even get a certificate for the top all-around-high-achiever for his clan

You are not keeping up. I copied that list from my previous post which links to the current study of the poor.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

You are not keeping up. I copied that list from my previous post which links to the current study of the poor.

Oh, that original post that was from 1990...back when we didn't have gasoline prices at $2.60-$4.00 a / gal...back then when the economy was doing so well...back in the good ole days...I thought I had already debunked that theory that you had

 

[top gun]

It does happen occasionally. I already admitted to having voted for Lyndon Johnson on the assumption that he would be less likely than Goldwater to get us into a war. Now, 46 years later, I may possibly have erred once again.

It happens occasionally, every 40-50 years anyway.

I'm talking about health care reform. Looking at the rest of the world paying less and getting more led me to believe that our own government could institute a health care plan that might improve our own.

Now, I'm beginning to think that our government is far too polarized and way too inept to come up with a workable national plan.

Possibly, it is time for the feds to throw up their hands, admit defeat, and deregulate the health care system entirely.

A single payer system is not going to happen, probably not in my lifetime anyway, and the current system is unsustainable. The alternative is for the federal government to ease itself out of the system altogether.

But not until we come up with a real way to limit costs. As it is, we must have an employer based health insurance plan until we're eligible for Medicare, and eliminating Medicare all at once would leave seniors with no place to turn.

So, given that there is no public option, no real reform, no cost containment, and no real debate on the solution, what is next?

Tort reform and more competition among insurers is a start, but it isn't going to keep medical care from growing out of reach of the middle class, and rather soon at that.

We just have to keep working.

We'll get there if for no other reason than necessity is the mother of invention and we have a health insurance crisis that's only going to get worse if not fully addressed. Look how much premiums have risen in just the last 5 or 10 years. Or go back further and really get shocked. Look how much premiums have risen since Nixon tried to do something about healthcare. It's staggering!

The whole Tort reform and buying across state lines as a fix is a huge deception. Not only does it not insure even one of the 36 million people currently without health insurance... or cover any preexisting conditions to save lives and prevent thousands of American bankruptcies daily... it can't bring down actual payer costs hardly at all. This is why.

Less than 1% of overall healthcare cost are law suit related. Now we all know a lot of medical liability law suits are valid and necessary. I mean if it's your child or grandmother who dies because some asleep at the switch surgeon leaves a sponge in her that goes staff infection after an operation or it's proven botches a operation you'll certainly want & deserve to be compensated.

So there will always be justified large awards. But let's get wild and say we capped them at 50% of what they currently are. Even with that crazy never gonna happen savings we only made it where the overall law suit cost to healthcare went from less than 1% to less than .5%. See what I mean?

Then we go to buying insurance across state lines. Sounds good. But the minute that happens the companies will price fix so they all can drive the most profits in all areas of the country. (they'll call it going with the standard rate) There are states right now that have several major players in their state. They have no huge savings due to that. The companies just target different groups so that they can say they save customers that switch some amount of money. But when you look at that company across all coverage groups they're just higher someplace else.

I still believe we will get some type health insurance reform but if we don't this is what will happen. We will either have to start up and pay for a free clinic system for the uninsured and/or expand emergency room services to cover the guaranteed increase in need. Either way either the government raises the money through taxes for the free clinics or the hospitals recoup their loses through higher charges to insured patients continually raising their rates and your premiums.

See that's what kills me about those trying to block reform. In the end not revamping the current system only guarantees there will be a less comprehensive system that does little preventive treatment and because those treatments are so much more expensive you'll still be paying for it just the same one way or the other. In other words less for more.

Anyone not old enough for Medicare had better be very worried. Because once an injury or illness creates your job loss that worse system because we didn't reform our current system... is your system.

 

[PLC1]

We just have to keep working.

We'll get there if for no other reason than necessity is the mother of invention and we have a health insurance crisis that's only going to get worse if not fully addressed. Look how much premiums have risen in just the last 5 or 10 years. Or go back further and really get shocked. Look how much premiums have risen since Nixon tried to do something about healthcare. It's staggering!

The whole Tort reform and buying across state lines as a fix is a huge deception. Not only does it not insure even one of the 36 million people currently without health insurance... or cover any preexisting conditions to save lives and prevent thousands of American bankruptcies daily... it can't bring down actual payer costs hardly at all. This is why.

Less than 1% of overall healthcare cost are law suit related. Now we all know a lot of medical liability law suits are valid and necessary. I mean if it's your child or grandmother who dies because some asleep at the switch surgeon leaves a sponge in her that goes staff infection after an operation or it's proven botches a operation you'll certainly want & deserve to be compensated.

So there will always be justified large awards. But let's get wild and say we capped them at 50% of what they currently are. Even with that crazy never gonna happen savings we only made it where the overall law suit cost to healthcare went from less than 1% to less than .5%. See what I mean?

Then we go to buying insurance across state lines. Sounds good. But the minute that happens the companies will price fix so they all can drive the most profits in all areas of the country. (they'll call it going with the standard rate) There are states right now that have several major players in their state. They have no huge savings due to that. The companies just target different groups so that they can say they save customers that switch some amount of money. But when you look at that company across all coverage groups they're just higher someplace else.

I still believe we will get some type health insurance reform but if we don't this is what will happen. We will either have to start up and pay for a free clinic system for the uninsured and/or expand emergency room services to cover the guaranteed increase in need. Either way either the government raises the money through taxes for the free clinics or the hospitals recoup their loses through higher charges to insured patients continually raising their rates and your premiums.

See that's what kills me about those trying to block reform. In the end not revamping the current system only guarantees there will be a less comprehensive system that does little preventive treatment and because those treatments are so much more expensive you'll still be paying for it just the same one way or the other. In other words less for more.

Anyone not old enough for Medicare had better be very worried. Because once an injury or illness creates your job loss that worse system because we didn't reform our current system... is your system.

I agree that our current system is deeply flawed and prohibitively expensive.

Can the government fix the situation? As it looks now, the answer is no. Perhaps when the middle class can no longer afford health care, then we will insist that something effective be done.

 

[dogtowner]

I agree that our current system is deeply flawed and prohibitively expensive.

Can the government fix the situation? As it looks now, the answer is no. Perhaps when the middle class can no longer afford health care, then we will insist that something effective be done.

Yes, the market will address itself and if that happens, the government will not like the result one bit as it will be kicked to the curb.

 

[GenSeneca]

Can the government fix the situation?

1. You don't recognize governments role in causing the problem.
2. You accept without question that its up to the government to fix the problem.
3. You don't trust the profit motive and Free Markets to solve the problem.

The best thing government could do is get out of the way. Government pays universities to limit enrollments in medical school - we have fewer doctors and health care professionals as a result. Supply and demand. Fewer doctors, greater demand, higher costs. That's just one example. The government intrusion on private HC insurance and governments control of Medicare/Medicaid are probably the biggest impediments to bringing costs down.

Supply and demand work, if we want lower costs, we need to increase the supply. The private sector does this automatically if the government doesn't get involved. Any shortage of food? Clothing? Electronics? Compared to health care, those industries have minimal government intrusion on their markets, the result is abundance and affordability. We could have the same with health care if we stop looking to the government to solve our problems and recognize governments role in creating the problem.