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Iraqis cannot forget what Americans have done here’

Discussion in 'World Politics' started by katsung47, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. cashmcall

    cashmcall Well-Known Member

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    Very old news...
     
  2. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Europe might care but its meaningless elsewhere.
     
  3. Aus22

    Aus22 Well-Known Member

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    I have Saxon comments in this post. While he might be right about Russia and American intervention, he should know Britain did the same when a world power from the Eighteen century. The result is the same, they gain no permanent empire and are hated by most of the world into which they intervene.
     
  4. TheJPRD

    TheJPRD Well-Known Member

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    You should smarten-up and read what's said, instead of misrepresenting what was said. I did NOT say that the US should intervene in other nations for moral reasons. I simply asked a question about that subject! Additionally, I did NOT say that the US entered WW2 for moral reasons! I presented a hypothetical, and asked for opinions.

    As is usual, your understanding of history was wrong too. The US didn't enter WW2 because we were afraid that Britain would be taken by the Nazis. The US didn't enter that war for moral reasons either, and I didn't make that claim. The US entered WW2 because (1) The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, Hawaii without provocation, and (2) a day or two afterwards, Nazi Germany declared war on the US. You should stop pretending that your opinions are worthy of consideration when you don't even know the facts upon which your positions are based.
     
  5. Saxon

    Saxon Well-Known Member

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    Uh, my family was there when the Nazis attempted to invade Britain. If not for Britain's military strength, the USA would be threatened. This is FACT, therefore your arguments about my 'opinions' being unworthy are unfounded and quite irrelevant. Even American military strategists admit that it could have led to the death of the United States had Britain fallen to the Nazis. That is one reason why the Americans entered the war against the Nazis. The Americans also kept yammering about their 'moral obligation' to defeat fascism at all costs. It is for this reason why many believe the US government of the day ALLOWED the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbour in order to give them an excuse to get into the war. Hitler had an agreement with the Japanese whereupon he must declare war on the USA if the Japanese do so. This is what all 'alliance' is all about. It is the same reason Canada joined the British in declaring war on the Nazis. We were allies of the British. Do you understand the concept of alliances, or must I draw a picture for you?
     
  6. TheJPRD

    TheJPRD Well-Known Member

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    Uh, my family was there on December 7, 1941, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor without provocation. Uh, my family was there on December 8, 1941, when President Roosevelt asked Congress to declare war on JAPAN....., not Germany! Uh, my family was also there on December 11, 1941, when Mussolini and Hitler declared war on the US, and the US then replied in kind.

    What does Canada's alliance with Great Britain have to do with the US entry into WW2? I know what an alliance is, and I also know that the US had no such alliance with Great Britain. As for Hitler's alliances amd treaties, they were virtually meaningless. Hitler tended to lie when it suited his purposes, regardless of whether he'd signed a piece of paper or not. He had a treaty with the Soviet Union, which he broke when he invaded that nation. If you wish to draw a picture, do so for your own edification. I don't need a picture.

    Your hatred of the US is bizarre. It clouds every post you make here. Hatred is a sad basis upon which to establish political positions. Hatred is also a sad basis upon which to interpret history. Hypocrisy is another trait I've noticed in you. You're the first to accuse the US of interventionism, and the first to tell us that we had no choice but to intervene in WW2. Whatever the US does or doesn't do, you perceive it to be wrong.
     
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  7. Hobo1

    Hobo1 Well-Known Member

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    I wrote a response to your original post - but it never made the trip through the internet.

    I think the US must consider three issues before going to war:
    1. National defense: Does the situation truly threaten the US. That, IMO, does not include fighting a rag-tag group of terrorists because Osama bin Ladin attacked America.
    2. Moral considerations: A civil war or regional conflict will always result in innocent people dying. America should have no part in sending our military in to die along side the innocent civilians. From Korea to Syria, our military are not equipped (nor moral responsibility) to somehow find a good solution to these conflicts.
    3. Hegemony: The US should not go to war to bring American culture (ie, democracy, friendship) to other parts of the world so that we can have some control over foreign countries after the war. We have learned many time that that is a fools game.
    Your previous question about WWII (no Pearl Harbor, etc.) falls into the "National defense" category. The lesson that Chamberlain learned is not recognizing a clear and present danger. Britain would have fallen to the Axis Powers if the US had not intervened. So even without provocation from a foreign country, we must be able to see if and when a situation has developed to the point where it truly threatens our national security. I don't see any realistic threat from any country at the moment - so our military should stay home.
     
  8. Gipper

    Gipper Well-Known Member

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    My father and several other family members were in England prior to D-Day. They were there to save the silly Brits from destruction...not to mention all of western Europe...and end Hitler's reign of terror. Our American hating Canuck has failed to recognize that the USA saved his family's ass and their nation....and do so more than once.

    And yeah, hating an entire nation is a terrible thing. It is a sign of ignorance.

    If it were up to me, the USA would NEVER have intervened in WWI or WWII. Let the silly warmongering Brits fight their own battles.
     
  9. Gipper

    Gipper Well-Known Member

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    I can't agree. The US should never go to war unless attacked or attack is imminent.

    Secondly, we should never allow a president or the military industrial complex the authority to take us to war using deceitful and covert tactics as did Lincoln, Wilson, FDR and LBJ.

    Regarding Britain, the mistake they made was a stupid alliance with the Poles. Why would France and Britain go to war over Poland? Dumb. Very dumb. Then give Poland to the USSR after the war. Hitler had his sights on the USSR from the beginning. The frenchies and limeys should have minded their own business and let Hitler destroy Stalin or himself in the effort. But hindsight is 20/20.
     
  10. Saxon

    Saxon Well-Known Member

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    I challenge you to visit Europe today, and TELL them you saved the British. Ever heard of the phrase 'Britain stood alone'??? You morons came AFTER we had already pretty much defeated the Nazis. You didn't save shit, and do not forget it. Britain was never in any danger of invasion due to the power of her Navy alone, never mind her air force.

    Your forces did not arrive until 1943 for WWII. Your forces did not arrive until 1917 for WWI. I would suggest you keep to yourself. No wonder Europeans hate you so much, with all that bullshit you all spout. We British and CAnadians did it all on our own WITHOUT you for 5 years, so I have no idea what you are fucking talking about. I would take care not to utter that shit if ever you visit Britain. You may rest assured they would punch you in the mouth that your teeth would clatter to the ground.
     
  11. TheJPRD

    TheJPRD Well-Known Member

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    There you go again. Few Americans would deny that Great Britain stood alone during most of 1940-1941. The Brits stood alone with courage and honor! I can only speak for myself, but my admiration for Britain and Canada during those years knows no bounds! What was the US doing during that period? EXACTLY what you now demand that we do.... we stayed out of Europes affairs. You criticize the US for staying out of Europe's affairs, and you criticize the US when we involve ourselves in Europe's affairs. You don't have an objective mind, and your hatred of the US is pathetic!

    You have a filthy and hateful mouth too. You're not representative of the majority of your countrymen that I know. Being such a dedicated Anglophile, you should try to set a better example!
     
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  12. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    canada has been going to seed for some time now but he does not represent his country well.
     
  13. Iolo2

    Iolo2 Well-Known Member

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    The American forces - apart from their disgusting racism - were welcomed because they shortened a war we were more than sick of, but most of our people do not greatly admire the American habit of praising themselves for coming in at the very last moment and making a lot of money for, as they tell us, saving our donkeys (which were in no danger). They then used the Marshall Plan to buy up the European governments and make quislings of our politicians, and again, people were so tired that they accepted that (my father worked all out against it, amongst many others, mind you). That was then.

    Nowadays, we are expected to contribute manpower to American colonialism. Having spent much of a long life opposing that obscenity here in the UK, I'd ask you not to equate two very different situations.
     
  14. TheJPRD

    TheJPRD Well-Known Member

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    Racism towards whom? The Brits? Every nation on earth has demonstrated ethnic bigotry at one time or another in it's history. Case in point, Great Britain! The USA also had our time of racial and ethnic bigotry. Again, you ONLY decry the US, selectively assigning wickedness to a nation you despise. You realize that YOU're the one displaying bigotry right now, don't you?

    My recollection is that only one nation repaid 100% of it's war debt to the US. That nation was not your's by the way. Those American claims you mention are often made in response to hateful tirades such as your's. When we Americans are told that we're evil, we tend to point-out truths that disprove such claims. I'm sure you're prefer we keep our mouths shut and agree with your bigoted accusations. Silence in the face of lies isn't one of our traits. Get used to it!

    The above comments are much like those we hear from the losers who demand more of our hard-earned tax dollars. The Marshall Plan rebuilt a devastated Europe! Our tax dollars now support American citizens who are incapable or unwilling to support themselves. Do they thank us for our generosity? NO. Like lolo, they ridicule and demean our generosity, and they hate us when we remind them of it! At the very least, I'd call their behavior "impolite"!

    The hypocrisy of the above statement is mindboggling. I love Great Britain and Canada. Nevertheless, being lectured about American "colonialism" by a Anglophile stretches credulity. :whistle:
     
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  15. Cruella

    Cruella Well-Known Member

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    American colonialism? Yeah right.....I wished
     
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