Is this a politicial forum? can we debate freely?

[LooseChange]

Actually LOOSECHANGE, why must a citizen feel a need to'hide his money" ?
If his money was earned within the law, hiding should not be necessary. If it is stolen money then we have other laws to handle the situation.

as for statement #3- Yes, democracy is the best system designed by man, Is it perfect?, no, but our constitution has provisions that can lawfully restrain all violaters. We must not allow fascism to grow and blame our Republic.
what say you?

First off Can you tell me who invented Democracy, Second can you tell me what he said about it in the end? Look Lets get one thing straight, We are a republic first and foremost. As a republic out system of government is supposed to run a certain way but not here in America. It has failed miserably within the last 20 years. The 2000 election was decided by the U.S. Supreme court so that is failure #1 right there. #2 Can we have one election without FRAUD showing its ugly head on both sides? NO!, Finally I don't trust the people to make a decent decision anymore because there just too God Damn ignorant to know what is really going on and some of them if not all of them could care less unless it effects them personally. Democracy is last on the list of how governments should run. If you got a problem with it bring it up with SOCRATES......He's the one who in the end dogged the hell out of it and surprise surprise He's the father of it....So that ought tell you something right there. I want us to have ABSOLUTE DEMOCRACY but there is now way in hell the people in this country would tolerate it or approve of it. Look it up and get back to me on what it is ALWAYS.

 

[always]

Capitalism requires the free flow of capital. It is a market system based on capital investment, and a government system committed to capital expenditure and tax incentives to prime the pump. Once the capital starts flowing, the capitalists take your capital and convert it into their capital. Capitalism, at least from the economic perspective of the capitalist, is a capital idea!

In the same vein, it is fitting that the CEO’s - those "captains of industry" that ran their companies aground - should reward themselves with big bonuses at the expense of the American taxpayer. The robber barons of the past have nothing on their immodest greed, which would make even the most rapacious pirate blush for shame. Surely, this is capitalism at its very best.

NO,Actually it is government at its worst ,You see Free Market Capitalsim has built -in safe guards. A company or companies who do not produce a profit will fail and die. That is just the nature of a FREE MARKET.However, when a greedy ,corrupt or ignorant group of politicians see an opportunity to rob the Federal Treasury, they forbid the closing of a "loser". Instead they blind the "public" eyes and mind by screaming "save jobs". Then the federal government prints trillions of dollars of useless dollars and saves nothing. In the future these "losers" go under and the poor taxpayers are saddled with debt for the rest of thei lives, their childrens live, and their childrens , childrens lives. America looses , The TAXPAYER looses, and the crooked politicians will in time , usually a long time , be found out and hopefully punished. But , as history has shown the ignorance of radical liberals,or socialist, or fascist voters has a deep depth, often times unlimited.

 

[always]

Is that a hypothetical question or do you really care so little about the rights of people to own private property. I would add that private property is a basic civil right mentioned in the constitution. While many of the things that the confiscated money is being used to pay for are not.

Without the constitutional protection of private property out system will fail. Who will work for wages they can't keep? Who will repair a home they can't keep? Who will grow food they can't sell?

DR.WHO, You sir are so very correct!, America needs citizens like you, citizens who understand the basic foundation of our BELOVED AMERICA. Our CONSTITUTION is under attack by those who now head our Federal Government. Our Nation is in grave danger. It has gotten so bad in America our very own President cannot allow himself to describe one who attacks and kills and wounds members of our military,on home soil, as being a "TERRORIST". All for his own personal reasons and P.C. - SHAMEFUL!

 

[Stalin]

Whether you are a liberal, a conservative, a fascist , a socialist, etc. YOU must be free to express your opinons on any political subject presented respectfully.
If this FORUM is to indeed meet the promise implied by its very title.

With this in mind I ask for your thoughts on the following remarks that are very "thoughtful" statements concerning certain politicial ideology and the resulting consequences:

1-"You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity".

2- "What one person receives without working for , another person must work for without receiving."

3- "The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else."

Very thoughtful statements , what say you?? Agree or Disagree and why.
Thank you- "always"

All valid if money is more important than human beings.

It isn't.

Comrade Stalin

 

[always]

All valid if money is more important than human beings.

It isn't.

Comrade Stalin

Somehow, I never thought of Joseph Stalin as a lover or defender of Humans or their rights! what say you?

 

[Dr.Who]

When did I say confiscate private property?

Did you not question whether it was a bad thing when government first takes money from someone else? here is the definition of confiscate:

con·fis·cate (knf-skt)
tr.v. con·fis·cat·ed, con·fis·cat·ing, con·fis·cates
1. To seize (private property) for the public treasury.
2. To seize by or as if by authority. See Synonyms at appropriate.
adj. (knf-skt, kn-fskt)
1. Seized by a government; appropriated.
2. Having lost property through confiscation.

Taxes are certainly an example of confiscation.

I do have a question though, and this is concrete, how does a nation survive if the base is eroded?

We supposedly have tax credits that make it so some do not pay income tax. Is that confiscating private property? If so, what's the alternative? Squeeze people even more so they can't survive? Have even less money making opportunities because we fund a security force to keep the rabble who have an aversion to starving to death in line?

If one segment of society amasses so much wealth that it can bend the government to provide even more benefits to itself thereby curtailing the freedom of the rest of society, how is that any better than the government taking away freedom?

Giving tax credits to people does not permit them to be productive participants in society. They should earn money and pay a small portion in taxes. If we focus on helping them to earn money we will be doing better than focusing on handing them cash.

Today when about 50% of the population pays no income tax at all the other 50% must have more of their money confiscated to make up the shortfall. The vast majority of the people who pay no income tax could pay a small reasonable tax.

One small segment of the population should not use their large wealth to bend government to provide itself with more wealth. We need politicians who won't be bribed. Is that too much to ask? Can anyone point to even one example of campaign finance reform that focused on the acts of the congressmen accepting the bribes?

That being said the amount of bending that is going on to serve the poorer people is just as rampant if not more so than the bending that goes on to serve the richer. We need to stop both examples of injustice.

 

[Dr.Who]

All valid if money is more important than human beings.

It isn't.

Comrade Stalin

It's all valid even if money is just a tool used by people to help other people.

Every fair trade a capitalist engages in is entered into freely by both parties. One person gets helped when he sells eggs and the other gets helped when he buys eggs.

The only role of government is to stop the fraud that may exist when one of the parties misrepresents the trade. In other words to protect rights, not to manage who trades with whom and for what.

 

[always]

All valid if money is more important than human beings.

It isn't.

Comrade Stalin

Stalin, your remark concerning the question of human value vs value of money is a valid question. Of course , Human life must always come first BUT sadlly in this world it often does not . ie- abortion, war , disease, famine etc.

Since time began , slavery , is used to obtain very cheap labor , often free labor , in order to enrich the upper class ,aka as the wealthy.
Today in these United States we still have Slavery although it is a remarkably different form than our world has ever known.
Due to extreme pressures put on our Nations politicians , plus the politicians desire to make millions of dollars through corruption ,the SLAVE in America now comes from the WEALTHY, the more Wealth one has the more contributions he MUST make to care for "the others", so in truth the WEALTHY have been turned into SLAVES.
If these SLAVES were to ever revolt , refuse to pay , find hiding places in other lands for their hard earned dollars , America will collapse.And these SLAVES would be freed.
Just a quick glance at who pays Federal Income taxes and who does not makes the question of "who is the SLAVE?", very easy to answer.
Approximately 50% of American citizens who work pay ZERO federal income tax,while approximately the other 50% pay 100% of ALL Federal income tax.A staggering figure and deserves the title , SLAVE. Plus of that 50 % who pay ALL our Federal taxes ,5% pay 95% and the balance , 45% pay only 5%.
So , America has become a Nation of wealthy Slaves and will soon cause an economic collapse if not corrected. Obama , sadly is not our answer, in truth he wants to bleed the wealthy even more. His dislike for wealth, unless it is for him to enjoy , knows no limits. America is indeed in GRAVE danger, not so much from abroad but from within. All our Voting Citizens must soon begin to make DECENT choices at election time . The huge mistake in 2008 must be made VOID, we can begin in 2010 by VOTING PRINCIPLES instead of PARTY!
CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES are on the MARCH! VOTE YOUR PRINCIPLES!

 

[top gun]

Whether you are a liberal, a conservative, a fascist , a socialist, etc. YOU must be free to express your opinons on any political subject presented respectfully.
If this FORUM is to indeed meet the promise implied by its very title.

With this in mind I ask for your thoughts on the following remarks that are very "thoughtful" statements concerning certain politicial ideology and the resulting consequences:

1-"You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity".

2- "What one person receives without working for , another person must work for without receiving."

3- "The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else."

Very thoughtful statements , what say you?? Agree or Disagree and why.
Thank you- "always"

The thing is anyone can lock in a positive opinion if they ask the question is a locked it way. For instance.

1- "No American child should continually go hungry because his or her parents are poor.

2- "There are some research and public services that are critically beneficial to American society but are so massive in need and scope while lacking in profit margin that the government must provide funding.

3- "A rising tide lifts all ships. When we help the poor through education and job training opportunities this lessens crime and helps our country overall.

So the answer is simply finding a fair balance... and caring about more than just ourselves.

No man is an island unto himself...

 

[Dr.Who]

1- "No American child should continually go hungry because his or her parents are poor.

And none do. Any parents in the country can walk into any foodbank to be fed. Additionally with a dozen churches in every city of the smallest kind no one would be turned away even if no food ban existed. Then there are food stamps.

2- "There are some research and public services that are critically beneficial to American society but are so massive in need and scope while lacking in profit margin that the government must provide funding.

There are no needs so pressing that there is not a profit motive that could motivate people to supply such need. Most of the needs could even be met without such profit motive.

3- "A rising tide lifts all ships. When we help the poor through education and job training opportunities this lessens crime and helps our country overall.

Yes it does. And this is where the bulk of government efforts needs to be expended. Make a fair and just society and the wealth will follow.

So the answer is simply finding a fair balance... and caring about more than just ourselves.

the balance is simple, not between more and less or right and left but simply between upholding rights as the constitution allows and having gov redistribute wealth to either the poor or the rich which the const does not allow.

 

[Dr.Who]

Stalin, your remark concerning the question of human value vs value of money is a valid question. Of course , Human life must always come first BUT sadlly in this world it often does not . ie- abortion, war , disease, famine etc.

Since time began , slavery , is used to obtain very cheap labor , often free labor , in order to enrich the upper class ,aka as the wealthy.
Today in these United States we still have Slavery although it is a remarkably different form than our world has ever known.
Due to extreme pressures put on our Nations politicians , plus the politicians desire to make millions of dollars through corruption ,the SLAVE in America now comes from the WEALTHY, the more Wealth one has the more contributions he MUST make to care for "the others", so in truth the WEALTHY have been turned into SLAVES.
If these SLAVES were to ever revolt , refuse to pay , find hiding places in other lands for their hard earned dollars , America will collapse.And these SLAVES would be freed.
Just a quick glance at who pays Federal Income taxes and who does not makes the question of "who is the SLAVE?", very easy to answer.
Approximately 50% of American citizens who work pay ZERO federal income tax,while approximately the other 50% pay 100% of ALL Federal income tax.A staggering figure and deserves the title , SLAVE. Plus of that 50 % who pay ALL our Federal taxes ,5% pay 95% and the balance , 45% pay only 5%.
So , America has become a Nation of wealthy Slaves and will soon cause an economic collapse if not corrected. Obama , sadly is not our answer, in truth he wants to bleed the wealthy even more. His dislike for wealth, unless it is for him to enjoy , knows no limits. America is indeed in GRAVE danger, not so much from abroad but from within. All our Voting Citizens must soon begin to make DECENT choices at election time . The huge mistake in 2008 must be made VOID, we can begin in 2010 by VOTING PRINCIPLES instead of PARTY!
CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES are on the MARCH! VOTE YOUR PRINCIPLES!

"THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated. Britain, with an army to enforce her tyranny, has declared that she has a right (not only to tax) but "to bind us in all cases whatsoever," and if being bound in that manner, is not slavery, then is there not such a thing as slavery upon earth. Even the expression is impious; for so unlimited a power can belong only to God."

If we do not fight against the tyranny of the tax man now we shall be enslaved as surely as was the plan when our founders fought the War of Independence.

 

[AtheismIsReality]

Did you not question whether it was a bad thing when government first takes money from someone else? here is the definition of confiscate:

Taxes are certainly an example of confiscation.


Giving tax credits to people does not permit them to be productive participants in society. They should earn money and pay a small portion in taxes. If we focus on helping them to earn money we will be doing better than focusing on handing them cash.

Today when about 50% of the population pays no income tax at all the other 50% must have more of their money confiscated to make up the shortfall. The vast majority of the people who pay no income tax could pay a small reasonable tax.

One small segment of the population should not use their large wealth to bend government to provide itself with more wealth. We need politicians who won't be bribed. Is that too much to ask? Can anyone point to even one example of campaign finance reform that focused on the acts of the congressmen accepting the bribes?

That being said the amount of bending that is going on to serve the poorer people is just as rampant if not more so than the bending that goes on to serve the richer. We need to stop both examples of injustice.

What's your master plan to get them to earn more? Have the government make companies pay higher wages?

If you think the pittance poor people are getting is anything close to the payday the upper class is getting, you best check the scorecard. The only reason the poor get what they get is because the oligarchs are content to squeeze the middle class further.

When this country burns, the oligarchs will be dancing a jig.

Too many people put profit before country. Very few will be reaping the benefits down the road.

 

[top gun]

And none do. Any parents in the country can walk into any foodbank to be fed. Additionally with a dozen churches in every city of the smallest kind no one would be turned away even if no food ban existed. Then there are food stamps.

Exactly my point. Thank you. Because of things like Food Stamps we have through a government program assured that children of poor parents anywhere across this nation don't have to go hungry. This was not the case before the government program. There was some charity from church's etc. but not nearly enough to handle the need.

There are no needs so pressing that there is not a profit motive that could motivate people to supply such need. Most of the needs could even be met without such profit motive.

Not true. Say NASA for instance. There is no private organization that could or would have sent a man to the moon way back when we did. However the things we learn through space exploration helps with vital military systems and a wide range of other topics that can benefit all Americans.

Same with a national highway system or any number of vaccines. Americans would not have built the industry and commerce that it did nearly so quickly without the highway system. Millions of Americans would have died of various diseases had government funding not moved research forward at a hugely quicker pace. These things are simply undeniable.

Yes it does. And this is where the bulk of government efforts needs to be expended. Make a fair and just society and the wealth will follow.

Exactly. The fact is that as more & more Americans are able to be healthy and get good educations they bring up the overall standard. They gain the ability to be self sufficient and then prosperous greatly benefiting our entire country.

the balance is simple, not between more and less or right and left but simply between upholding rights as the constitution allows and having gov redistribute wealth to either the poor or the rich which the const does not allow.

Well it does allow it. That was ruled on years ago. This whole progressive tax system didn't just start yesterday. And regardless the Constitution was without any doubt a flawed document in itself on various issues, allowing slavery jumps right out. So the idea of hard some line perfection is simply a myth. Evolving with modern circumstances sometimes creates different requirements.

The progressive income tax is the fairest way we have found. In fact it needs to be modernized in some areas. Such as people only paying into Social Security on their first $100,000 of yearly income. People earning $100,000 or less pay 7.65% on every dollar they earn. People making over $100,000 PAY NOTHING... ZERO... on everything they make over $100,000.

So right now if you make $100,000 per year you pay the exact same into Social Security as the multimillionaire or the billionaire.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Whether you are a liberal, a conservative, a fascist , a socialist, etc. YOU must be free to express your opinons on any political subject presented respectfully.

BZZZZZT!!!!!!!!!!!

How conveniently you forgot to mention FACT-based opinions....and, the ability/effort to substantiate/post those facts.

You've CONSISTANTLY failed, on ALL counts!!!

BEGONE (to your favorite teen-chat site)!!!!!!

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Sure it is a bad thing. It is not the governments place to take from one and give to another.

....And, this Country's infrastructure's a grand-example, of THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!