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Let the war on Christmas begin!
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Dawkinsrocks
Well-Known Member
Well god made it that way (allegedly) with nobody forcing him to so he must be pretty nasty
And if the message of JC is love and peace why are so many of his followers so supportive of hate and war?
The history of the church and is pretty much that of one of the nastiest organisations to have ever existed be it paedophile catholic priest, the burning of those who think the wrong way, the slave trade etc
As it happens I am a great believer in love and peace but I don't need to read mythological books to develop this and I don't need to follow fictitious characters to perpetuate the belief.
And if the message of JC is love and peace why are so many of his followers so supportive of hate and war?
The history of the church and is pretty much that of one of the nastiest organisations to have ever existed be it paedophile catholic priest, the burning of those who think the wrong way, the slave trade etc
As it happens I am a great believer in love and peace but I don't need to read mythological books to develop this and I don't need to follow fictitious characters to perpetuate the belief.
God gave us our free agency. If we make bad decisions with that freedom, it's our responsibility, not god's. What does it say in the Declaration of Independence about having been endowed by our creator?
With that freedom comes responsibility. Don't blame god for the poor decisions made by humans.
Dawkinsrocks
Well-Known Member
No, god invented free will too and he knew how it would be used.
This actually meand it is not free will at all because if god knows how it will be used that usage must be preset so it is fixed.
If that is too hard for you to understand just remember god made free will and knew that feeble beings called humans would use it unwisely.
So he must bear the responsibility
As he does for making the devil. If he hadn't done that there wouldn't be any temptation
God is pretty evil when you think about it
Perhaps that is why his followers are so nasty
This actually meand it is not free will at all because if god knows how it will be used that usage must be preset so it is fixed.
If that is too hard for you to understand just remember god made free will and knew that feeble beings called humans would use it unwisely.
So he must bear the responsibility
As he does for making the devil. If he hadn't done that there wouldn't be any temptation
God is pretty evil when you think about it
Perhaps that is why his followers are so nasty
Keep Right has given the answer I would give. In Reality I know little about God, He isa Mystery. However I know much about men. Many of these including some of those who claim to be Catholic are evil. We can't change God but we can change man.
Dawkinsrocks
Well-Known Member
Oh, so you just ignore my post that you reference and carry on regardless.
The Christian get out of jail card 'free will' is logically flawed as I have explained so why don't you try countering that rather than just re-asserting that free will is to blame?
The Christian get out of jail card 'free will' is logically flawed as I have explained so why don't you try countering that rather than just re-asserting that free will is to blame?
Free will is not to blame for anything. Free will is a part of the grand design.
We make mistakes. We learn from our mistakes. Sometimes, things go very badly as a result of our poor choices. It's all a part of the learning process.
What is logically flawed is blaming the ills of the world on god. The bad things that happen are a result of human actions.
Are we to blame god for having given us the freedom to make choices?
Dawkinsrocks
Well-Known Member
You are still avoiding the issue
God made man with all his attributes including free will knowing how it would be used
So he bears responsibility for that and the will cannot be free as known outcomes must be predetermined.
Combine this with god's creation of and support for the devil and you easily see that god invented sin
What a hypocrite god is
I suppose that is why his followers are too
God made man with all his attributes including free will knowing how it would be used
So he bears responsibility for that and the will cannot be free as known outcomes must be predetermined.
Combine this with god's creation of and support for the devil and you easily see that god invented sin
What a hypocrite god is
I suppose that is why his followers are too
Does that mean you think god should have denied humans our free will?
Dawkinsrocks
Well-Known Member
He has no choice
Free will is logically impossible if god is omniscient.
To know the future the future must be pre-set
If it is then so are all the actions of mankind
So there can be no such thing as free will
My view is that god should not have made the world at all.
I mean, let's be real, he did a crap job of it. So much so that he had to murder the world's population shortly after doing it
Although curiously he doesn't see the need to murder the devil who presumably is more evil than a few weak people
God was just being evil when he made mankind with all the suffering that he knew would ensue.
If god existed the logical thing to do would be to hate him
Free will is logically impossible if god is omniscient.
To know the future the future must be pre-set
If it is then so are all the actions of mankind
So there can be no such thing as free will
My view is that god should not have made the world at all.
I mean, let's be real, he did a crap job of it. So much so that he had to murder the world's population shortly after doing it
Although curiously he doesn't see the need to murder the devil who presumably is more evil than a few weak people
God was just being evil when he made mankind with all the suffering that he knew would ensue.
If god existed the logical thing to do would be to hate him
So, you're saying that humankind should never have existed at all?
Dawkinsrocks
Well-Known Member
I am saying that the way god made them according to the myth means it would have been better to not make them. Nobody would have missed the good bits and everyone wold have missed the bad. Let's remember most people in history have lived very unpleasantly difficult lives.
And, the world would be much better off without humans, the most destructive species on the planet
And, the world would be much better off without humans, the most destructive species on the planet
So, you would simply have stopped evolution with the great apes? That's an interesting concept.
Do you think humans are the end of evolution?
Dawkinsrocks
Well-Known Member
The god story is not one of evolution
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There are many god stories. There is no conflict between the existence of god and the theory of evolution, only between evolution and some of the creation stories.
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