Notice how the lib media is spinning the looming govt shutdown?

[Dr.Who]

that or since he has no power to change the house or senate bills...he has let them work it out? had he been to out there with anything, the Republicans would just vote against it out of spite anyway.

And the Dems have not cut enough? gee shocking? its almost like...they are doing what they are Elected to be...and not be Republicans...I notice Republicans have not done anything to raise revenue to lower the debt as well...

Why is it that republicans often seem to have this idea that the job of Dems is to do what Republicans want?

Ryans bill proposes eliminating the complex myriad of special laws and loopholes for the rich and corporations. Without those loopholes GE would not have earned as much and paid nothing.

 

[Dr.Who]

I would kinda like to get my 1000 bucks in tax rebates....

Also I guess having out Military people...actuly being paid is a good thing....
Also I guess paying our Police is a nice idea. Lucky they are forced to work even if they are not able to get paid until after the shutdown ends.
some 800,000 peoples jobs and income could be effected...but they are not real people, goverment workers don't have familys, rent, or homes to pay for.

And just what the econ needs is a good shock of people not being paid, and uneasness about the recovery even more..

But don't worry its just poltics...its not like real people will be effected.
This is why if it happens the Republicans are going to lose politically....and as much as I love watching republicans lose...I don't like to see them lose on the backs of workers and our Military.

8oo K/350 million is what percent? And they will get paid for any time they work - just later.

Most police are paid by local governments. Additionally Federal police are not effected by the shutdown.

I agree that it is preferable for workers to get paid what they expected but if last years congress had actually passed a budget we would not even be talking about this.

 

[Rick]

that or since he has no power to change the house or senate bills...he has let them work it out?

Presidents have always been involved in helping work them out, but of course previous presidents KNEW something about the subject.

had he been to out there with anything, the Republicans would just vote against it out of spite anyway.

There's nothing he could be there with - he will support only a suicidal rush to a bankrupt country.

And the Dems have not cut enough? gee shocking? its almost like...they are doing what they are Elected to be...and not be Republicans...I notice Republicans have not done anything to raise revenue to lower the debt as well...

Raise taxes FURTHER, in a near depression??? Once again, you, like all leftwingers, advertise in flashing lights your total ignorance of economics.

 

[TruthSeeker]

The truth is that the Democrats didn't pass a fiscal year 2011 budget last fall because they didn't want to pizz off the voters before the November elections (we know how well that plan worked out). The Dems passed a continuing resolution to keep the government funded until after the elections, then dropped the whole budget thing into the laps of the House Republican majority in January.

The Democrats are cowards in this whole thing. They are, as usual, "the party of no".

The real bottom line is.......none of this matters. The United States is toast. Once the U.S. dollar tanks, later on this year, all bets are off.

Buy silver. Buy some gold if you can afford it. Stock up on supplies. Hunker down and be prepared. Heed my warning. I know what I am talking about.

 

[Dr.Who]

Buy silver. Buy some gold if you can afford it. Stock up on supplies. Hunker down and be prepared. Heed my warning. I know what I am talking about.

Agreed.

Heed the warning.

Pay off your debt and buy next years supplies of whatever you use, because next year your interest rate is going to kill you and the price of good is going to make your wallet hurt pretty bad.

 

[BigRob]

The truth is that the Democrats didn't pass a fiscal year 2011 budget last fall because they didn't want to pizz off the voters before the November elections (we know how well that plan worked out). The Dems passed a continuing resolution to keep the government funded until after the elections, then dropped the whole budget thing into the laps of the House Republican majority in January.

The Democrats are cowards in this whole thing. They are, as usual, "the party of no".

The real bottom line is.......none of this matters. The United States is toast. Once the U.S. dollar tanks, later on this year, all bets are off.

Buy silver. Buy some gold if you can afford it. Stock up on supplies. Hunker down and be prepared. Heed my warning. I know what I am talking about.

What are you actually basing your claim that the dollar will collapse this year on? Additionally, why should anyone look to you as an expert on the subject?

 

[TruthSeeker]

What are you actually basing your claim that the dollar will collapse this year on? Additionally, why should anyone look to you as an expert on the subject?

So, what would you like me to do? Post my credentials and resume' on this forum?

Instead of taking me seriously, you question my motives? Instead of being respectful of my educated advice, you question my knowledge?

I've already done all the work and research. All you have to do is believe that what I am saying is what will happen, and it's going to get real ugly, real fast, in this country.

I could give you a "client list", but there's that darn "privacy" thing standing in the way.

I'll give you a hint, though. Remember what the price of silver was two short years ago? Do you know what the price of silver is today? Do the math.

Why do you suppose all you ever see on TV or the internet, or hear on the radio is "buy gold, buy gold, buy gold"? Because there's big money for the "middle-man" in the gold market. They have hidden charges. They get people to buy "old" gold coins at premium prices. They talk people into not taking physical possession of their gold and letting these companies "store" the gold for them.

How come you hardly hear anything about silver? There's not much money in selling silver. Two years ago, silver was selling for about $10-12.00 an ounce. Today, silver is almost $40.00 an ounce. Silver has more than tripled in value in two years! Gold has not even come close to that return on investment.

Do you have any idea how precarious the food distribution situation is in the United States? Have you checked the price of meat and vegetables and fruit lately? How about the price of gas? The federal government doesn't check the prices of those things when they calculate their "inflation" and "cost of living" numbers, because they know the panic it would cause to include the cost of food and fuel in their statistics.

If you live in the country, you better be stockpiling food and medicines and securing a water source and make sure you have the ability to protect your property and your family.

There are many very happy people out there who trusted my advice about buying silver instead of gold. There are many prepared people out there who are ready for the coming collapse, and whose efforts will provide food, water, shelter, and safety for their families.

When your paper and ink promises are worthless. When your 401K is worthless. When your bank closes it's doors. When food supplies dwindle. When the streets are filled with desperate people looking for food or water or medicine or shelter, and they'll do whatever it takes to get it. Then you'll say, "Damn, I should have heeded "TruthSeeker's" advice on that internet forum.

 

[Dr.Who]

What are you actually basing your claim that the dollar will collapse this year on? Additionally, why should anyone look to you as an expert on the subject?

You can do a fact check to see if the facts in this are right or wrong:

"Now, there are so many countries moving away from the dollar that I can see why they believe a drop in the dollar is coming but, it may not be for months or a year or two. I think that even if they are right, they could easily be ahead of the game.

As long as the 2.5 billion people that control 2/3 of the global economy, aren’t spending, I can’t see earnings rising in real terms much. The Baltic Dry Index doesn’t reflect a global recovery of significance and I believe it would rise if those 2.5 billion were spending more.

At the same time, there is growing nervousness about the deficits and the dollar. It seems to be trying to build a base around 77 but, has had a hard time staying above it. There is nothing to support the dollar fundamentally due to the government policies. Only through the propping up of it by nations and central banks that don’t want a collapse, does it seem to stay up.

If we slide into a deep depression, it could easily go from zero CPI directly to 1,000% CPI virtually overnight if any nation panics and stops accepting dollars for trade. The ripples through the other nations would be rapid.

Until that time, however, short term dollar rallies, market corrections, even a severe one, bond prices rising, etc. are all possible. Our fate is no longer determined by what we do. There is nothing our government can do to make 2.5 billion people and foreign nations do what isn’t in their best interest and they will determine demand and the fate of the dollar. With the trillions of loose canons (dollars) out there that can be spent on raw materials like oil, copper, etc. or food stocks like wheat, corn, soybeans, sugar, etc. and on gold and silver, the velocity of money could take off like a rocket if there is any growth in fear of holding dollars.

The government here, can’t do a thing about it unless they are willing to put us into a deeper depression by raising interest rates and destroying all purchases needing credit. Housing would plummet in price and the GSE’s making the thousands of bad loans would collapse and leave the tax payer hanging. The banks would fold, and the tax revenues drop so fast and far that no nation would accept dollars because without tax revenues, even interest on debt at higher interest rates would be impossible to pay.

The CBO projects a quadrupling of interest on debt from just under $200 billion (public debt only, not interest on trust fund debt) to $800 billion just with normal interest rate increases during a recovery. That is more than we took in this year in corporates and individual tax receipts. Thus, further declines in the economy will make things rapidly get much worse.

Trying to save the dollar could actually collapse it. Not trying to save it will probably collapse it.

As AP said, we never should have started these interest rate cuts in a credit recession. All we were doing is digging the debt hole deeper when it was already too deep. But, then we shouldn’t have done them after the tech bubble broke either and caused the housing and debt bubbles we are dealing with now.

A stable monetary policy and good economic policy is what was needed and we haven’t had that for decades. If you are a patient person or business and rates are going down and you know they will keep going down, do you borrow after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd cut? Or do you wait til the bottom? Or, do you hurry up and borrow at the first rate hike, knowing more will follow?

Trying to stimulate the economy with a series of rate cuts doesn’t make a lot of sense once everyone knows that there is a pattern to them and waiting longer gets you a better rate. But, if you knew that you would pay 5% this month, next month and next year and you needed to borrow, would you wait?

There are other ways than interest rates to stimulate or restrict lending although I am not a fan of most if any of them (haven’t studied them much). The purpose of the FED was to keep money in line with demand, not create demand or reduce demand for the money. It was not to create employment with easy money so companies would borrow more and thus hire more. It was not to bail out banks or Freddie and Fannie and FHA or GM or AIG.

If those things were to be done, Congress, using tax revenues or debt wisely, was to be the means of doing those things. However, they have become so dependent on the FED and Treasury that they are unprepared to do their job.

Also, on making the FED the agent of Congress for money supply. Congress is still Constitutionally responsible and they can’t be if they aren’t allowed to audit what their “agent” is doing and making sure that “agent” is not violating the intention of Congress when they made them their “agent.” What we have now is the “tail wagging the dog.”

For decades we have used policies that have stacked up risk until the private sector can no longer support the government.

quote:
In 2009, government will consume a whopping 61.34 percent of national income.

That can’t be sustained and will lead to a collapse of the dollar when the loans to us stop coming."
http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-usa-dollar-and-future-economic-prosperity/

You need only read the last sentence and ask can we keep borrowing forever and what will happen when the loans stop coming. maybe you think we will start paying off our debt instead of borrowing more. How fast do we need to pay off debt to stop the collapse (which just means a dramatic fall not that it would have zero value)?

Now, I am sure that you are questioning the source and wondering why that has not been said in major newspapers like IBD. It has been. I remember clearly just before the bubble burst a few years ago, every time I opened a paper or turned on the news there was another expert saying that a bubble would pop and ten speculating on what that would mean. It was pervasive but so subdued that most people paid no attention. The same is happening right now. They are telling us everyday but they don't want to alarm people so it is very subdued. Who is listening? Rich people are listening and they are preparing which is why they get hurt less than the little guy and why the gap between rich and poor always expands. The rich spend lots of time thinking about money and the poor spend lots of time thinking about getting laid. Ask yourself, who is opening all those stores that pay cash for gold? Why are there so many of them? Why would they want to buy all that gold?

 

[BigRob]

So, what would you like me to do? Post my credentials and resume' on this forum?

Instead of taking me seriously, you question my motives? Instead of being respectful of my educated advice, you question my knowledge?

I've already done all the work and research. All you have to do is believe that what I am saying is what will happen, and it's going to get real ugly, real fast, in this country.

I could give you a "client list", but there's that darn "privacy" thing standing in the way.

1) A "client list" is not research.
2) Why should I take your financial advice without any evidence?
3) You sound somewhat like a financial advisor..but frankly, I would have fired you for such a response if I asked this question in person.

I'll give you a hint, though. Remember what the price of silver was two short years ago? Do you know what the price of silver is today? Do the math.

How come you hardly hear anything about silver? There's not much money in selling silver. Two years ago, silver was selling for about $10-12.00 an ounce. Today, silver is almost $40.00 an ounce. Silver has more than tripled in value in two years! Gold has not even come close to that return on investment.

So your assertion is that the dollar will collapse this year because the price of silver and other commodities has risen in the past few years? Rampant increases in commodity prices can signal a weakness in the dollar, but it takes a lot more than that to cause the outright collapse of a currency.

Commodity prices are simply not enough to bring this about.

As for returns...anyone with half a brain could have made a killing in the market collapse...and far greater than a 200% return. In certain stocks I picked up during the collapse, I have seen returns of 1000% and better....in less than two years. Getting a 200% return during the collapse didn't even require thinking...you could have picked up GE around $6-7 dollars, IP around $5 which would give you returns of 250% (roughly) and 600% (roughly) over the same time frame.

Do you have any idea how precarious the food distribution situation is in the United States? Have you checked the price of meat and vegetables and fruit lately? How about the price of gas? The federal government doesn't check the prices of those things when they calculate their "inflation" and "cost of living" numbers, because they know the panic it would cause to include the cost of food and fuel in their statistics.

If you live in the country, you better be stockpiling food and medicines and securing a water source and make sure you have the ability to protect your property and your family.

There are many very happy people out there who trusted my advice about buying silver instead of gold. There are many prepared people out there who are ready for the coming collapse, and whose efforts will provide food, water, shelter, and safety for their families.

When your paper and ink promises are worthless. When your 401K is worthless. When your bank closes it's doors. When food supplies dwindle. When the streets are filled with desperate people looking for food or water or medicine or shelter, and they'll do whatever it takes to get it. Then you'll say, "Damn, I should have heeded "TruthSeeker's" advice on that internet forum.

Certainly commodities should be a part of every portfolio, but advising people to go all into silver/gold etc and stockpile food for the end times is absurd. Where exactly will that silver get you when chaos reigns? Nowhere.

 

[BigRob]

You can do a fact check to see if the facts in this are right or wrong:

"Now, there are so many countries moving away from the dollar that I can see why they believe a drop in the dollar is coming but, it may not be for months or a year or two. I think that even if they are right, they could easily be ahead of the game.

As long as the 2.5 billion people that control 2/3 of the global economy, aren’t spending, I can’t see earnings rising in real terms much. The Baltic Dry Index doesn’t reflect a global recovery of significance and I believe it would rise if those 2.5 billion were spending more.

At the same time, there is growing nervousness about the deficits and the dollar. It seems to be trying to build a base around 77 but, has had a hard time staying above it. There is nothing to support the dollar fundamentally due to the government policies. Only through the propping up of it by nations and central banks that don’t want a collapse, does it seem to stay up.

If we slide into a deep depression, it could easily go from zero CPI directly to 1,000% CPI virtually overnight if any nation panics and stops accepting dollars for trade. The ripples through the other nations would be rapid.

Until that time, however, short term dollar rallies, market corrections, even a severe one, bond prices rising, etc. are all possible. Our fate is no longer determined by what we do. There is nothing our government can do to make 2.5 billion people and foreign nations do what isn’t in their best interest and they will determine demand and the fate of the dollar. With the trillions of loose canons (dollars) out there that can be spent on raw materials like oil, copper, etc. or food stocks like wheat, corn, soybeans, sugar, etc. and on gold and silver, the velocity of money could take off like a rocket if there is any growth in fear of holding dollars.

The government here, can’t do a thing about it unless they are willing to put us into a deeper depression by raising interest rates and destroying all purchases needing credit. Housing would plummet in price and the GSE’s making the thousands of bad loans would collapse and leave the tax payer hanging. The banks would fold, and the tax revenues drop so fast and far that no nation would accept dollars because without tax revenues, even interest on debt at higher interest rates would be impossible to pay.

The CBO projects a quadrupling of interest on debt from just under $200 billion (public debt only, not interest on trust fund debt) to $800 billion just with normal interest rate increases during a recovery. That is more than we took in this year in corporates and individual tax receipts. Thus, further declines in the economy will make things rapidly get much worse.

Trying to save the dollar could actually collapse it. Not trying to save it will probably collapse it.

As AP said, we never should have started these interest rate cuts in a credit recession. All we were doing is digging the debt hole deeper when it was already too deep. But, then we shouldn’t have done them after the tech bubble broke either and caused the housing and debt bubbles we are dealing with now.

A stable monetary policy and good economic policy is what was needed and we haven’t had that for decades. If you are a patient person or business and rates are going down and you know they will keep going down, do you borrow after the 1st, 2nd, 3rd cut? Or do you wait til the bottom? Or, do you hurry up and borrow at the first rate hike, knowing more will follow?

Trying to stimulate the economy with a series of rate cuts doesn’t make a lot of sense once everyone knows that there is a pattern to them and waiting longer gets you a better rate. But, if you knew that you would pay 5% this month, next month and next year and you needed to borrow, would you wait?

There are other ways than interest rates to stimulate or restrict lending although I am not a fan of most if any of them (haven’t studied them much). The purpose of the FED was to keep money in line with demand, not create demand or reduce demand for the money. It was not to create employment with easy money so companies would borrow more and thus hire more. It was not to bail out banks or Freddie and Fannie and FHA or GM or AIG.

If those things were to be done, Congress, using tax revenues or debt wisely, was to be the means of doing those things. However, they have become so dependent on the FED and Treasury that they are unprepared to do their job.

Also, on making the FED the agent of Congress for money supply. Congress is still Constitutionally responsible and they can’t be if they aren’t allowed to audit what their “agent” is doing and making sure that “agent” is not violating the intention of Congress when they made them their “agent.” What we have now is the “tail wagging the dog.”

For decades we have used policies that have stacked up risk until the private sector can no longer support the government.

quote:
In 2009, government will consume a whopping 61.34 percent of national income.

That can’t be sustained and will lead to a collapse of the dollar when the loans to us stop coming."
http://investmentwatchblog.com/the-usa-dollar-and-future-economic-prosperity/

You need only read the last sentence and ask can we keep borrowing forever and what will happen when the loans stop coming. maybe you think we will start paying off our debt instead of borrowing more. How fast do we need to pay off debt to stop the collapse (which just means a dramatic fall not that it would have zero value)?

Now, I am sure that you are questioning the source and wondering why that has not been said in major newspapers like IBD. It has been. I remember clearly just before the bubble burst a few years ago, every time I opened a paper or turned on the news there was another expert saying that a bubble would pop and ten speculating on what that would mean. It was pervasive but so subdued that most people paid no attention. The same is happening right now. They are telling us everyday but they don't want to alarm people so it is very subdued. Who is listening? Rich people are listening and they are preparing which is why they get hurt less than the little guy and why the gap between rich and poor always expands. The rich spend lots of time thinking about money and the poor spend lots of time thinking about getting laid. Ask yourself, who is opening all those stores that pay cash for gold? Why are there so many of them? Why would they want to buy all that gold?

Gold stores pop up because they can pay you less than market value for your gold, and then melt it down, and turn a profit... nothing more.

 

[TruthSeeker]

1) A "client list" is not research.
2) Why should I take your financial advice without any evidence?
3) You sound somewhat like a financial advisor..but frankly, I would have fired you for such a response if I asked this question in person.

So your assertion is that the dollar will collapse this year because the price of silver and other commodities has risen in the past few years? Rampant increases in commodity prices can signal a weakness in the dollar, but it takes a lot more than that to cause the outright collapse of a currency.

Commodity prices are simply not enough to bring this about.

As for returns...anyone with half a brain could have made a killing in the market collapse...and far greater than a 200% return. In certain stocks I picked up during the collapse, I have seen returns of 1000% and better....in less than two years. Getting a 200% return during the collapse didn't even require thinking...you could have picked up GE around $6-7 dollars, IP around $5 which would give you returns of 250% (roughly) and 600% (roughly) over the same time frame.

Certainly commodities should be a part of every portfolio, but advising people to go all into silver/gold etc and stockpile food for the end times is absurd. Where exactly will that silver get you when chaos reigns? Nowhere.

How can I possibly respond to your comments when pretty much all of your responses have little, if anything, to do with my posting that you are responding to. I can't have a meaningful written conversation with somebody who has reading comprehension problems.

 

[BigRob]

How can I possibly respond to your comments when pretty much all of your responses have little, if anything, to do with my posting that you are responding to. I can't have a meaningful written conversation with somebody who has reading comprehension problems.

...just keep advising those clients to all move to the country and go off the grid for when the end times come.

As for how you can respond...you can start by offering more evidence to your claim that the dollar will collapse this year... so far all we have heard as back up is that "silver is expensive."

 

[pocketfullofshells]

You don't think then President has any sway over Democratic members of the Senate? (I say the Senate because that is where the compromise is needed) No, the President cannot write the exact bill, but he can wield a lot of influence in bringing about a compromise....the only outcome to stem from his disengagement will be a shutdown.

As for Republicans doing nothing....have you not followed pending legislation? House Republicans are trying to do what they were elected to do, and it just gets laughed on I'm the Senate as extreme....don't you think our debt is a problem worth addressing?

yes the president has some say over the senate...but he can't control it, and his power may be best used not in the public for the Senate ..so don't think he is not useing it.

And why is it that the Senate is where the compromise is needed? the House is special and does not because they are republicans and can't compromise?

And yes the Debt is important...so is getting the econ going again and jobs ( good way to reduce debt is to have people employed needed less help and paying taxes..)...but republicans already have got more then half what they wanted money wise...and whats holding this up...is Riders...like Funding for planned parenthood....Just like the fake issue in WI...make bogus claims to seem all just in your view...and use it to get your real goal. Unless you think the Republicans are so stupid ( and I will grant you that some are cough cough bachmann) that they realy think that the will win and get 60 billion in cuts and not 35 as dems have already agreed to ( far more then they wanted to already) ( funny note, my auto spellcheck suggested Eichmann..wounder if someone had fun with that like how on a old version of word if you highlighted Impeach Bill Clinton..and clicked Thesaurus...it would say "I will drink to that")

If the government shuts down, its going to be due to the House leader can't get his tea party backers to shut up and actually deal...but then again maybe we can see him cry a bit when they don't.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Gold prices will drop soon. Glenn beck will not be on Fox to Shill it anymore

 

[Dr.Who]

Gold stores pop up because they can pay you less than market value for your gold, and then melt it down, and turn a profit... nothing more.

They can only do that as long as the value of gold is more today than it was yesterday. In other words the value of gold must be rising.

Which is exactly what it is doing. So what happens to the value of the dollar if gold goes from $1400 per ounce to $2800 per ounce next year.

What happens to the value of your retirement account or your house if that happens? Or a gallon of milk?

If your house and your retirement account respond that way what will happen to the interest rate the vast majority of people pay on their credit cards every month?

Hypothetically, if Gold doubles in price, your house and your retirement account and all your assets lose 20% each year, the price of food and stuff rises 8% every year, and the debt you pay each month goes from $300 to $600, while your salary is unchanged, what will that do to your personal budget? Or the guy's next door?

Don't believe me? Start poking around on the net and tell us what your best guess is on what will happen for each of those variables in the next few years. And none of that assumes that foreign countries will stop loaning us money.