Notice how the lib media is spinning the looming govt shutdown?

[BigRob]

yes the president has some say over the senate...but he can't control it, and his power may be best used not in the public for the Senate ..so don't think he is not useing it.

If the President is using his influence we can assume the following:
1) His influence among Senate Democrats has waned considerably.
2) He wants a government shutdown.

If the President is not using his influence, then he is laughably disengaged and does not care if we shutdown or not.

And why is it that the Senate is where the compromise is needed? the House is special
and does not because they are republicans and can't compromise?

A compromise is needed in the Senate because there can be no real negotiation in th House until the Senate passes something and sends it back to them for consideration.

And yes the Debt is important...so is getting the econ going again and jobs ( good way to reduce debt is to have people employed needed less help and paying taxes..)...but republicans
already have got more then half what they wanted money wise...and whats holding this up...is
Riders...like Funding for planned parenthood....Just like the fake issue in WI...make bogus claims to seem all just in your view...and use it to get your real goal. Unless you think
the Republicans are so stupid ( and I will grant you that some are cough cough bachmann) that they realy think that the will win and get 60 billion in cuts and not 35 as dems have already agreed to ( far more then they wanted to already) ( funny note, my auto spellcheck suggested Eichmann..wounder if someone had fun with that like how on a old version of word if you highlighted Impeach Bill Clinton..and clicked Thesaurus...it would say "I will drink to that")

Democrats has vaguely agreed to cut 35 billion, but have refused to actually identify what they would it from....so basically they haven't done anything except speak in vague generalities about the budget....that is hardly being part of the process.

As for spending to create jobs...I think one needs only look at the level of spending we have done and realize that it flies in the face of typical Keynesian models. If anything, this crisis should have taught us that Keynesian economics is dead.

If the government shuts down, its going to be due to the House leader can't get his tea party backers to shut up and actually deal...but then again maybe we can see him cry a bit when
they don't.

A government shut down will be the result of bad faith negotiations on the part of Senate Democrats.

Not to mention of course the issue that if Democrats did their jobs last year (when they controlled both chambers) and passed a budget, this would not be an issue.

 

[Dr.Who]

...just keep advising those clients to all move to the country and go off the grid for when the end times come.

As for how you can respond...you can start by offering more evidence to your claim that the dollar will collapse this year... so far all we have heard as back up is that "silver is expensive."

I agree that collapse is a strong word. I agree that going off the grid is extreme. But do be prepared for inflation and higher interest rates. Think of it this way, they are both so low that they have no where to go but up.

How fast and how far is the only question.

 

[Dr.Who]

Gold prices will drop soon. Glenn beck will not be on Fox to Shill it anymore

No according to most advisers on the web:

"In fact, Credit Suisse Group AG (CS: 44.88 0.00 0.00%) has increased its long-range forecast for gold, arguing in a new report that prices should remain near current levels for at least the next four years.

CS analysts’ 2014 target is now $1,300 and ounce, compared to their previous forecast of $1,120. That may not seem like a very brave forecast since gold is already trading at nearly $1,200 an ounce. But it has profound implications for gold miners, because mining stocks are priced based on expectations of future earnings. Removing the expectation that gold futures prices could slide way back removes an impediment to shares going higher.

The rationale for the change: Credit Suisse believes there is an 80% chance of a renewed quantitative easing – or money printing – due either to a full-blown sovereign debt crisis or a new recession.""

http://www.dailymarkets.com/stock/2...think-golds-run-higher-will-end-anytime-soon/

Note the last bit - more money printing due to debt crisis or recession.

Instead of paying off the debt countries have been printing more money. What results can we expect from that? Most people don't know and can't take advantage of it if they do but the rich folks know and can. (they are often the same people making it happen)

From the wiki article on inflation:

"Economists generally agree that high rates of inflation and hyperinflation are caused by an excessive growth of the money supply."

Are you prepared for inflation or hyperinflation?

 

[pocketfullofshells]

No according to most advisers on the web:

"In fact, Credit Suisse Group AG (CS: 44.88 0.00 0.00%) has increased its long-range forecast for gold, arguing in a new report that prices should remain near current levels for at least the next four years.

CS analysts’ 2014 target is now $1,300 and ounce, compared to their previous forecast of $1,120. That may not seem like a very brave forecast since gold is already trading at nearly $1,200 an ounce. But it has profound implications for gold miners, because mining stocks are priced based on expectations of future earnings. Removing the expectation that gold futures prices could slide way back removes an impediment to shares going higher.

The rationale for the change: Credit Suisse believes there is an 80% chance of a renewed quantitative easing – or money printing – due either to a full-blown sovereign debt crisis or a new recession.""

http://www.dailymarkets.com/stock/2...think-golds-run-higher-will-end-anytime-soon/

Note the last bit - more money printing due to debt crisis or recession.

Instead of paying off the debt countries have been printing more money. What results can we expect from that? Most people don't know and can't take advantage of it if they do but the rich folks know and can. (they are often the same people making it happen)

From the wiki article on inflation:

"Economists generally agree that high rates of inflation and hyperinflation are caused by an excessive growth of the money supply."

Are you prepared for inflation or hyperinflation?

none of that address the issue of Beck of course ( and you know I was being sarcastic)

 

[TruthSeeker]

They can only do that as long as the value of gold is more today than it was yesterday. In other words the value of gold must be rising.

Which is exactly what it is doing. So what happens to the value of the dollar if gold goes from $1400 per ounce to $2800 per ounce next year.

What happens to the value of your retirement account or your house if that happens? Or a gallon of milk?

If your house and your retirement account respond that way what will happen to the interest rate the vast majority of people pay on their credit cards every month?

Hypothetically, if Gold doubles in price, your house and your retirement account and all your assets lose 20% each year, the price of food and stuff rises 8% every year, and the debt you pay each month goes from $300 to $600, while your salary is unchanged, what will that do to your personal budget? Or the guy's next door?

Don't believe me? Start poking around on the net and tell us what your best guess is on what will happen for each of those variables in the next few years. And none of that assumes that foreign countries will stop loaning us money.

Well said, Dr. Who! I concur with most of what you wrote (as I usually do).

Forget about gold. Silver is what everybody should be watching and investing in. Silver is the "poor man's gold". Silver has many industrial uses. Silver is much more difficult to refine than gold is, so supply is not keeping up with demand. China is buying silver and gold like crazy. Silver just cracked $40 an ounce this morning. Silver is a tangible asset. Paper and ink are not. Clad coins are not. The U.S. dollar will no longer be the world's reserve currency in the near future. How's that for a "shotgun" explanation of silver investing?

As for off-the-grid living, those who aren't prepared are going to be in big trouble. The power grid is extremely fragile, as is our entire infrastructure. It won't take much to tip it over. Fuel prices and food prices are the two things to keep a real close eye on. Inflation is already here in a big way, and it's going to get much worse. Why do you think the government doesn't include food and fuel in their inflation and cost of living statistics? Just an oversight on their part? Yeah, right. Let's face it, they don't want anybody to know how bad things really are, even though those of us who are paying attention already know how bad things are, at the gas pump and at the grocery store.

The stock market is a house of cards that is going to collapse under the weight of it's own Ponzi schemes, illegal securities manipulations, and all the other "artificial wealth" schemes that have polluted it. The U.S. stock market should be temporarily shut down, and the crooks and hucksters arrested and put in prison. The stock market is completely corrupt and there should be thousands of stock market manipulators in prison right now.

Anybody who is invested in the stock market via their 401K or via the many "get rich quick" schemes floating around out there, had better get out while they can. Anybody who is a public employee and is fully vested in a local, state, or federal pension plan is in big trouble. Anybody who trusts that their bank will remain solvent, no matter what happens, is only fooling themselves. Most major banks are already insolvent, and are staying open only because the federal government is propping them up.

I don't much care who believes me and who doesn't. I can only tell you what I know, based on my personal experiences, my extensive research, and what I have been told by other sources.

I used to be a day trader in the stock market. I made my money in the stock market by investing in certain companies shortly after Hurricane Katrina struck the gulf coast. I made a significant amount of money during the satellite radio craze (thanks to Sirius and Howard Stern).

But day trading is a lot of work, and has too many ups and downs, and I am not getting any younger. Most of all, at the end of the day, I felt dirty, even though I did nothing illegal, so I got out.

Enough people do believe me and trust me, and they are not only making five or six figures profit in their silver and gold investments, and having the security of a tangible monetary exchange tool, but many are also preparing for life without all the "luxuries" people in this country enjoy and take for granted, like public utilities, cell phones, HDTV, and yes, the internet.

Do you know that there are many small retailers around the country who no longer accept paper and ink and clad coins as payment? They accept silver and gold only.

Do you also know that there is legislation in the works in a number of states to establish an alternative currency based on a gold and silver standard, in the event that the U.S. dollar crashes?

It's the people who are not preparing for the inevitable that will be the ones who will be knocking on the doors of us who are prepared, looking for food and water and safety and a place to sleep.

I'm not trying to give anybody a hard time, or be a "know-it-all", or pretend to be an "expert" on everything. I'm writing all of this to help those of you who have some money, and who have a grasp on what is going on, and what is going to happen, in this once-great country of ours.

I have no "insider information" on the U.S. dollar collapsing this year. Nobody does, except maybe Ben Bernanke, but I can tell you with certainty that the manipulation of our currency and the printing of unlimited amounts of U.S. currency and the Federal Reserve shenanigans that are going on are leading this country down a path of insolvency, and ultimately, the devaluation of the U.S. dollar. I believe that it could happen later on this year, and I hope I am wrong. It's just a matter of time, and this country is going to end up like many Central and South American countries, or end up like Greece or Iceland or many others.

All we can do as individuals is focus on our own families, and prepare the best way we can with the resources we have available.

It doesn't matter what political party is in power in Washington, D.C. or in whatever state people live in. Both parties have had a significant hand in where this country is today. There is plenty of blame and finger-pointing to go around, but that doesn't feed and protect our families.

BigRob, hopefully this provides you with the information you wanted. I am not here to get involved in jousting matches with people who I consider to be good and decent people.

 

[Dr.Who]

none of that address the issue of Beck of course ( and you know I was being sarcastic)

Beck takes all the same facts ( in fact he is really really good at finding and presenting those facts) but he connects the dots pretty poorly and through his prism of conspiracy and doom to arrive at conclusions that are at worst wacko and at best exaggerations.

Though I have to admit on a few of the smaller conspiracies he has presented his case has been made pretty well. I guess there are a few conspiracies out there.

 

[Dr.Who]

Well said, Dr. Who! I concur with most of what you wrote (as I usually do).

Forget about gold. Silver is what everybody should be watching and investing in.

As for off-the-grid living, those who aren't prepared are going to be in big trouble. The power grid is extremely fragile, as is our entire infrastructure. It won't take much to tip it over.

Anybody who trusts that their bank will remain solvent, no matter what happens, is only fooling themselves. Most major banks are already insolvent, and are staying open only because the federal government is propping them up.

Enough people do believe me and trust me, and they are not only making five or six figures profit in their silver and gold investments, and having the security of a tangible monetary exchange tool, but many are also preparing for life without all the "luxuries" people in this country enjoy and take for granted, like public utilities, cell phones, HDTV, and yes, the internet.


It's the people who are not preparing for the inevitable that will be the ones who will be knocking on the doors of us who are prepared, looking for food and water and safety and a place to sleep.

All we can do as individuals is focus on our own families, and prepare the best way we can with the resources we have available.

Based on what you have written there (which I edited liberally) you are not just saying there will be a huge shakeup but that banks and money will completely fold.

Holding gold in the form of paper would be useless since the companies that back it would have gone under.

Does that mean that you and your investors only hold actual gold or silver?

Isn't it expensive to ship? Doesn't it cost more to get actual gold?

Then again if things go that far south who will be buying and producing things made from gold and silver? People cant eat gold or silver.

It seems to me that I see some "schizophrenia" in the notion of thinking that the economy will collapse to that degree and thinking that there will be a market for gold and silver.

IMO, if things go so bad that money is worthless compared to gold then the gold won't be worth that much either compared to food.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Based on what you have written there (which I edited liberally) you are not just saying there will be a huge shakeup but that banks and money will completely fold.

Holding gold in the form of paper would be useless since the companies that back it would have gone under.

Does that mean that you and your investors only hold actual gold or silver?

Isn't it expensive to ship? Doesn't it cost more to get actual gold?

Then again if things go that far south who will be buying and producing things made from gold and silver? People cant eat gold or silver.

It seems to me that I see some "schizophrenia" in the notion of thinking that the economy will collapse to that degree and thinking that there will be a market for gold and silver.

IMO, if things go so bad that money is worthless compared to gold then the gold won't be worth that much either compared to food.

First of all, my motto is "if you can't touch it, you don't own it". People who are involved in gold ETFs or have purchased gold from one of the internet dealers who are happily "storing" their gold for them, have been duped into believing that their gold is safe and secure in some vault somewhere in the USA, but they are going to be in for a big surprise. The COMEX vaults don't have anywhere close to the amount of gold they claim to have. The whole "let us hold your gold for you, and here is your piece of paper that shows how much gold you own" Ponzi scheme will come crashing down with the stock market.

You have fallen into the trap of talking about gold. Forget gold. Talk about something the average Joe can afford. Talk about silver. Silver has increased 120% in value in the past year.

So, when the U.S. dollar is devalued or completely collapses, there has to be some kind of replacement currency or exchange tool, and it will be silver and gold, just like it was for the first 150+ years of this country's existence. Using a bartering system will only go so far, and then it becomes way too cumbersome.

In the meantime, those who invested in silver a year or two ago should take all of their profits from that investment and start stockpiling survival items, buying land out in the country, and buying everything they will need to provide food, water, safety, and shelter for their families.

 

[BigRob]

They can only do that as long as the value of gold is more today than it was yesterday. In other words the value of gold must be rising.

Not necessarily, it depends on what they pay you for it.

Which is exactly what it is doing. So what happens to the value of the dollar if gold goes from $1400 per ounce to $2800 per ounce next year.

What happens to the value of your retirement account or your house if that happens? Or a gallon of milk?

If your house and your retirement account respond that way what will happen to the interest rate the vast majority of people pay on their credit cards every month?

Hypothetically, if Gold doubles in price, your house and your retirement account and all your assets lose 20% each year, the price of food and stuff rises 8% every year, and the debt you pay each month goes from $300 to $600, while your salary is unchanged, what will that do to your personal budget? Or the guy's next door?

Don't believe me? Start poking around on the net and tell us what your best guess is on what will happen for each of those variables in the next few years. And none of that assumes that foreign countries will stop loaning us money.

As for gold increasing, I am not going to deny that gold is getting more expensive, or that it will contribute to a weakening dollar... my issue was simply that rising commodity prices alone will not cause the collapse of the US dollar within the year, as was originally claimed.

 

[BigRob]

Well said, Dr. Who! I concur with most of what you wrote (as I usually do).

Forget about gold. Silver is what everybody should be watching and investing in. Silver is the "poor man's gold". Silver has many industrial uses. Silver is much more difficult to refine than gold is, so supply is not keeping up with demand. China is buying silver and gold like crazy. Silver just cracked $40 an ounce this morning. Silver is a tangible asset. Paper and ink are not. Clad coins are not. The U.S. dollar will no longer be the world's reserve currency in the near future. How's that for a "shotgun" explanation of silver investing?

As for off-the-grid living, those who aren't prepared are going to be in big trouble. The power grid is extremely fragile, as is our entire infrastructure. It won't take much to tip it over. Fuel prices and food prices are the two things to keep a real close eye on. Inflation is already here in a big way, and it's going to get much worse. Why do you think the government doesn't include food and fuel in their inflation and cost of living statistics? Just an oversight on their part? Yeah, right. Let's face it, they don't want anybody to know how bad things really are, even though those of us who are paying attention already know how bad things are, at the gas pump and at the grocery store.

The stock market is a house of cards that is going to collapse under the weight of it's own Ponzi schemes, illegal securities manipulations, and all the other "artificial wealth" schemes that have polluted it. The U.S. stock market should be temporarily shut down, and the crooks and hucksters arrested and put in prison. The stock market is completely corrupt and there should be thousands of stock market manipulators in prison right now.

Anybody who is invested in the stock market via their 401K or via the many "get rich quick" schemes floating around out there, had better get out while they can. Anybody who is a public employee and is fully vested in a local, state, or federal pension plan is in big trouble. Anybody who trusts that their bank will remain solvent, no matter what happens, is only fooling themselves. Most major banks are already insolvent, and are staying open only because the federal government is propping them up.

I don't much care who believes me and who doesn't. I can only tell you what I know, based on my personal experiences, my extensive research, and what I have been told by other sources.

I used to be a day trader in the stock market. I made my money in the stock market by investing in certain companies shortly after Hurricane Katrina struck the gulf coast. I made a significant amount of money during the satellite radio craze (thanks to Sirius and Howard Stern).

But day trading is a lot of work, and has too many ups and downs, and I am not getting any younger. Most of all, at the end of the day, I felt dirty, even though I did nothing illegal, so I got out.

Enough people do believe me and trust me, and they are not only making five or six figures profit in their silver and gold investments, and having the security of a tangible monetary exchange tool, but many are also preparing for life without all the "luxuries" people in this country enjoy and take for granted, like public utilities, cell phones, HDTV, and yes, the internet.

Do you know that there are many small retailers around the country who no longer accept paper and ink and clad coins as payment? They accept silver and gold only.

Do you also know that there is legislation in the works in a number of states to establish an alternative currency based on a gold and silver standard, in the event that the U.S. dollar crashes?

It's the people who are not preparing for the inevitable that will be the ones who will be knocking on the doors of us who are prepared, looking for food and water and safety and a place to sleep.

I'm not trying to give anybody a hard time, or be a "know-it-all", or pretend to be an "expert" on everything. I'm writing all of this to help those of you who have some money, and who have a grasp on what is going on, and what is going to happen, in this once-great country of ours.

I have no "insider information" on the U.S. dollar collapsing this year. Nobody does, except maybe Ben Bernanke, but I can tell you with certainty that the manipulation of our currency and the printing of unlimited amounts of U.S. currency and the Federal Reserve shenanigans that are going on are leading this country down a path of insolvency, and ultimately, the devaluation of the U.S. dollar. I believe that it could happen later on this year, and I hope I am wrong. It's just a matter of time, and this country is going to end up like many Central and South American countries, or end up like Greece or Iceland or many others.

All we can do as individuals is focus on our own families, and prepare the best way we can with the resources we have available.

It doesn't matter what political party is in power in Washington, D.C. or in whatever state people live in. Both parties have had a significant hand in where this country is today. There is plenty of blame and finger-pointing to go around, but that doesn't feed and protect our families.

BigRob, hopefully this provides you with the information you wanted. I am not here to get involved in jousting matches with people who I consider to be good and decent people.

I am certainly not trying to personally attack you, if anything came across that way I am sorry...

I agree with you that the dollar will have its struggles, especially as commodity prices rise, but I don't think that alone is going to trigger a collapse this year or next...

And I certainly won't argue that spending the way we are and printing money the way we do will ultimately be a massive problem for the country. I just don't think we have hit the point of no return yet.

As for day trading, I would love to talk about the strategies you used, as I too often day trade.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I am certainly not trying to personally attack you, if anything came across that way I am sorry...

I agree with you that the dollar will have its struggles, especially as commodity prices rise, but I don't think that alone is going to trigger a collapse this year or next...

And I certainly won't argue that spending the way we are and printing money the way we do will ultimately be a massive problem for the country. I just don't think we have hit the point of no return yet.

As for day trading, I would love to talk about the strategies you used, as I too often day trade.

I think you may the whole "commodity prices tied to the U.S. dollar" assertion backwards. People are not buying silver and gold as a "commodity". They are buying silver and gold as an alternative, or as a replacement, for fiat currencies, which virtually every currency in the world is.

What you are seeing with silver and gold is a classic case of "supply and demand". Yes, there are people who are treating silver and gold like they would stocks, the "buy low, sell high" routine, but there are more people who are hoarding silver and gold than ever before.

What is going on with gold and silver is independent of what the U.S. dollar is doing, and what the U.S. stock market is doing, which is a really bad sign for the U.S. dollar, and for the U.S. economy.

The U.S. dollar is failing, despite all of the efforts to artificially prop it up, because of the crippling U.S. debt, the fact that the monetary supply is at record levels, and the fact that the Federal Reserve is now in the business of buying securities and notes. This has created a worldwide ripple effect that has caused most industrialized nations to lose confidence in the viability of the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency.

As for day trading, I spent countless hours researching and researching, and then doing more research, and playing the "hit and run" game. The smallest tidbit of information can turn out to be more valuable than the lengthy analyses offered by the so-called "experts". I got burned out after a couple of years, and I switched to numismatics and bullion.

Idiots like Jim Cramer drive me nuts. I wonder how many people have taken that guy seriously and lost their life savings because of his overblown opinions and poor advice. All Cramer needs is a round red nose, a wig, and some face paint, and he could be a clown in the Barnum and Bailey Circus tomorrow.

 

[Dr.Who]

First of all, my motto is "if you can't touch it, you don't own it". People who are involved in gold ETFs or have purchased gold from one of the internet dealers who are happily "storing" their gold for them, have been duped into believing that their gold is safe and secure in some vault somewhere in the USA, but they are going to be in for a big surprise. The COMEX vaults don't have anywhere close to the amount of gold they claim to have. The whole "let us hold your gold for you, and here is your piece of paper that shows how much gold you own" Ponzi scheme will come crashing down with the stock market.

You have fallen into the trap of talking about gold. Forget gold. Talk about something the average Joe can afford. Talk about silver. Silver has increased 120% in value in the past year.

So, when the U.S. dollar is devalued or completely collapses, there has to be some kind of replacement currency or exchange tool, and it will be silver and gold, just like it was for the first 150+ years of this country's existence. Using a bartering system will only go so far, and then it becomes way too cumbersome.

In the meantime, those who invested in silver a year or two ago should take all of their profits from that investment and start stockpiling survival items, buying land out in the country, and buying everything they will need to provide food, water, safety, and shelter for their families.

I understand you much more clearly now.

I am not so sure the dollar will be so devalued that it will no longer be useful as a tool for trade and I hope I am not wrong.

But in the last then months alone it has already fallen 14%

Did you all hear that and do you all wonder why it is not on the front pages?

Every single thing owned by every single American that they value in terms of the dollar is now worth 14% less. That's a pretty big tax that the feds have put on us!!! And a regressive one too.

 

[Dr.Who]

I agree with you that the dollar will have its struggles, especially as commodity prices rise, but I don't think that alone is going to trigger a collapse this year or next...

And I certainly won't argue that spending the way we are and printing money the way we do will ultimately be a massive problem for the country. I just don't think we have hit the point of no return yet.

WE may not all be using the word "collapse" the same way.

But if the dollar were to fall in value roughly 42% in the next three years would that be dire enough for you to call it something akin to a collapse?

 

[BigRob]

WE may not all be using the word "collapse" the same way.

But if the dollar were to fall in value roughly 42% in the next three years would that be dire enough for you to call it something akin to a collapse?

I could agree that would not be a positive development, and I suppose I would call it a collapse....but it would also be a big money making opportunity.

 

[Hobo1]

Here is my experience with gold. I bought a fairly large quantity of gold between 1983-1986. Everyone was projecting that gold would return to previous highs seen in 1980, which seemed like a logical assumption at the time.

I remember paying about $600 an ounce. Now look at this graph:

At first glance, anyone can see my investment was not smart. I would have had to wait 30 to get my money back. And adjusted for inflation, the buying power of my $600 in 1983 would require $1300 in today's dollar. In other words, until recently I would have been smarter buying something like a mahogany desk, or anything else which never gets old (ie, depreciates).

In fact this graph on the price of gold reminds me of another graph:

I could see the housing bubble coming a mile away. And as far as a safe place to keep your money, gold looks awfully like a bubble to me. This concept of a gold bubble is supported by the fact that gold has no underlying value to support its value. It used to be an industrial metal, but no longer. There is no one company to support the value, like De Beers supports diamonds.

I also believe "if you can't touch it, you don't own it"... but the "it" better be a good price when I buy it and have some very substantial underlying value.