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Obama = Lincoln? I don't think so...

Discussion in 'U.S. Politics' started by POLITICAL JEDI, Jan 21, 2009.

  1. POLITICAL JEDI

    POLITICAL JEDI New Member

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    For the longest time now, the U.S. "media machine" has been doing it's utmost to compare and equate Barrack Obama with Abraham Lincoln. In a word -- nonsense.

    Truth be told, it was George W. Bush who became Lincoln reborn. Bush's presidency mirrors Lincolns in many ways. Consider this:

    Lincoln declared war against the south to "preserve the union." Only later did he offer up the Emancipation Proclamation which completely redefined the moral purpose of the entire war.

    In contrast, Bush declared war against Iraq to prevent WMD proliferation. Only later did he offer up the Bush Doctrine (Spreading Freedom) which completely redefined the moral purpose of the entire war.

    Lincoln, with blunders galore, went through a laundry list of generals ( Pope, Hooker, Burnside, Halleck, McClellan, and Rosecrans) before finding the right ones in Grant and Sherman.

    In contrast, Bush with blunders galore went through the same laundry list of generals (Franks, Abizaid, Pace, Sanchez, Casey, Odierno) before finding the right one in Gen. David Petraeus.

    George Bush (for all practical purposes) had the power to conduct whatever kind of war he saw fit in Afghanistan and Iraq. At the end of the day, the unmistakable fact remains: George W. Bush, the most embattled wartime president since Abraham Lincoln, chose liberation and political freedom for over 50 million people.

    "The United States and Great Britain share a mission in the world beyond the balance of power or the simple pursuit of interest. We seek the advance of freedom and the peace that freedom brings." ~ George W. Bush

    "America is deeply concerned about the plight of political prisoners in this region, as well as democratic activists who are intimidated or repressed, newspapers and civil society organizations that are shut down and dissidents whose voices are stifled. I call on all nations in this region to release their prisoners of conscience, open up their political debate and trust their people to chart their future" ~ George W. Bush

    The defense of freedom requires the advance of freedom
    ~ George W. Bush

    His steadfast message and mission these last 8 years couldn't be more sincere, more American, and just like Lincoln, he was villified and hated. Downright shameful IMO...

    But thankfully, Bush was a man of character. He believed in the wars and had the courage of his convictions. Unlike all the liberal democrats and even some ship-jumpers in the GOP, he did not go down when the barrage of blows came flying. His defiance truly calls to mind Lincolns:

    "I do the very best I know how -- the very best I can; and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out all right, what is said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, 10 angels swearing I was right would make no difference."

    Just my 2 cents...
     
  2. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I liked that very much.

    thank you !
     
  3. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    Bush was an incompetent President that chose lying to the American people and reductions in Civil Rights in the Bush/Cheney the end justifies the means mentality.

    There is no honor in many of the things they did. They deceived. They tortured. They hurt our standing in the world. They wrecked our economy. Brave American soldiers lost their lives on what in the final analysis was nothing more than a Nation Building campaign.

    This is why he is leaving office with a at best 25% job approval rating. History will not shine favorably on George W. Bush.

    On the "Lincoln" issue... President Obama isn't trying to be President Lincoln nor does he in anyway feel he's of the stature of Lincoln. President Obama admires President Lincoln. He enjoys studying the ways of Lincoln. He respectfully gives tribute to Lincoln.

    It's up to the American people & history to judge who was a good President and who was not. The fact that 75% of Americans see W. as a failure and no one but maybe you sees W. as anything even remotely close to Lincoln is just the way it is.

    As far as our new President Obama... I think he will make a place for himself in history that is very favorable. Let's give him more than a day in office to show what the can do.
     
  4. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    you said something in your post I agreed with. You said "It's up to the American people & history to judge who was a good President and who was not"

    This person made that call when he gave his opinion. He is an American and has a right to see it as he does. I liked what he wrote. I dont think Bush is nearly as bad as you do, but you have the right to think what ever you want, its just too bad you dont always give others the right to think what they want.

    You get upset if anyone is critical of the obamas even when they are pointing out something true and you equally get upset if anyone is not as critical of bush as you are.

    I think President Bush is a very good person but dang he spent like a liberal... that bothers me most about him
     
  5. Mare Tranquillity

    Mare Tranquillity Active Member

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    I liked that very much.

    thank you !
     
  6. POLITICAL JEDI

    POLITICAL JEDI New Member

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    Can't you get past "Bush lied"? Or at least have the courage to admit that after looking at the same intelligence privy to GWB, 77 U.S. Senators lied? Former presidents GHWB and Clinton lied? Numerous foreign and domestic intelligence agencies lied? Friendly and not-so friendly Heads of State in foreign governments lied? Iraqi exiles lied?

    You sir, have no sense of history. . .

    Have you lost habeas corpus due to an Abraham Lincoln? Have you had your newspapers censored on the orders of a Woodrow Wilson? Have you been rounded up based on your ethnicity and thrown into concentration camps by an FDR? These are just some examples of what past wartime presidents have done to protect America during war.

    George Bush's surveillance of banking transactions and wiretapping of suspected terrorist who mean America harm is no different. So your far Left "constitution got trampled" mantra doesn't wash -- much less make any sense.

    You liberals always say that...Just outta curiosity, with whom has our standing in the world been damaged? China? Iran? The Russian KGB?

    But most likely your referring to Europe...

    Let me just clue you in on a thing or two about a thing or two where Europe is concerned.

    Yea they can talk "big ****" from across the pond about American unilateralism and high-handedness as they bask in free health care, free day care, free elderly care, 30hr work weeks, vacations galore, and all the other "government cheese" they enjoy at the expense of not having a military worth a ****.

    But when Hitlers U-boats were proving deadly, or when 300 Soviet divisions were breathing down their pathetic necks, or when a Slobodan Milosevic reared it's ugly head, or when they become understanding that they will soon be living in range of nuclear tipped Iranian missiles -- then, and only then, do they sing a different tune and come "hat in hand" to Washington to get us to "do something" about it. So please, spare me the "were hated" mantra. It's a tired and whipped horse that comes up lame.

    Typical liberal, self centered and completely out of touch with our manifest destiny...

    For your information, our "nation building" campaign has produced an Iraq that abides by it's newly written constitution, that holds free and fair elections, that is at peace with it's neighbors and that does not support terror/terrorist -- Now that there is calm, Iraqis can read newspapers of every opinion, pursue upward mobility, women have unprecedented rights, etc, etc. . .

    Historically, whether Iraq was worth the high cost depends on whether you think the present-day liberal and humane democracies in Europe, Japan, and Korea were likewise worth the far more terrible price that America paid in blood and treasure to secure their enduring freedom? Well do you?

    Sorry Gun, I don't put too much stock in opinion polls. 80% of Americans polled were in full favor for the war in Iraq. 90% when the statue of Saddam came tumbling down. Polls have a way of turning on a dime.

    As to your claim that "History will not shine favorably on George W. Bush"

    During World War 2, the United States censored news from the battlefield, hid information about military disasters, tried and executed German saboteurs in secret military tribunals, and wiretapped the phones of suspected enemy sympathizers -- and yet we still managed to preserve the Constitution and come out smelling like a rose in history books everywhere. . .

    Not a single terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11, Libya just happened to give up it's nuclear program (the same week Saddam was fished outta his spider hole mind you), Pakistan's H.Q. Khan's "nuclear wal-mart" shut down, tens of thousands of Islamic jihadist assholes are dead, and 50 million of the most oppressed people on earth now enjoy the hope and promise democracy offers -- think what you want, history will be kind to George W. Bush

    You misjudge me Gun. I'm of the opinion that the Left's comparison of Bush to Hitler or the Right's comparison of Obama to socialist Stalin or claiming "so and so" is the worst president of all time is just flat out deplorable on any level. Hundreds of thousands brave Americans rot in the ground so we have the right and freedom to make such despicable comparisons and statements, but we only dishonor their ultimate sacrifice when we do.
     
  7. XCALIDEM

    XCALIDEM Active Member

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    It is funny how every stupidity that Obama does gets blamed on Bush. How convinient. The liberal media still continues to give this guy a break....
     
  8. POLITICAL JEDI

    POLITICAL JEDI New Member

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    the force is strong with this one! ;)
     
  9. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    Well since the new guy has only been in office 2 days now and Bush just left after 8 long years... yep... I'm thinking the blame positioning is pretty obvious.;)
     
  10. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    No... it's was a critical mistake. You don't selectively bend intelligence to gain public acceptance the will result in mass killing and economic nightmares. It just simply the wrong thing to do and in this case the Bush/Cheney administration are on the wrong side of right & wrong.

    Their concern know should be if there's enough documentation (or any new revaluations come out) that they might we brought up on some type of war crimes.


    Here again there is a difference between real things and made up things.
    No they already had a sceptically view no doubt. I'm talking about neutral countries and Allies.

    My wife is retired US ARMY INTELLIGENCE a Russian linguist that speaks 4 languages and a history major. We are reasonably well versed in the realities overseas. You have an opinion which is your right... but it doesn't make it right. Or to put it another way... It appears to me your light saber is somewhat weak.;)

    Unfortunately the reality is George W. Bush was a very poor President and will be judged by history as such. I wish this were not true. I'd rather have all good competent President's of our Untied States... regardless of Party.
     
  11. POLITICAL JEDI

    POLITICAL JEDI New Member

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    Lets for a moment forget the fact that former presidents Bush and Clinton, an overwhelming majority in the U.S Senate, U.S. congressmen, friendly and not-so friendly foreign governments, Iraqi exiles, and numerous intelligence organizations were all in "Slam Dunk" agreement about Saddam's WMD.

    Lets also forget the fact that Saddam was only one of only a handful of people in human history to have actually authorized the use of WMD on his enemies!

    Lets just jump right into the "meat and potatoes" of it all...That being Pelosi, Reed, Murtha, Feingold, Clinton, Biden, Schumer, Byrd, etc, etc. have yet to produce any stealth document that (a) warned there was no WMDs, and (b) was knowingly withheld from the Congress.

    That said, your side of the argument is, at best, Cindy Sheehan propaganda.

    What are these "made up" things you refer to?

    Instead of giving me your wife's resume (which BTW did nothing to counter anything I posted thus far) maybe, just maybe, it would behoove you to give up the keyboard to her to push your lameass theories and ideas -- cause frankly, my "weak lightsaber" is slicing and dicing the sh!t outta you...

    Just a thought...
     
  12. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    Yes let's do because Bush #41 didn't go in because he said there would be no acceptable exit strategy for leaving Iraq and President Clinton didn't tweak Intel to fool his way in either.

    Yes let's do that as well because he only had very crude gas weapons and used them in internal fights within his own country. Absolutely nothing that Bush invaded for such as a false 9-11 Iraq link.

    Yes and since people actually inside at top levels of the Bush administration have come forward to say it themselves there's no need. Add to that the fact the National Media has also documented 935 separate lies and I believe we have a very good grasp as to what went on.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhKYc7cTZR4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbR3QPcmxFU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpaq3Vr95oU

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4pA1otzpQ

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ef3C7h52Cs


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXbKLyP_9ac

    Since you were proselytizing your great military and foreign affairs knowledge I thought it only proper to point out that people who really have experience find your emotional rants lacking in much real insight.

    Or to put it into words you'd probably better understand...:D

    Don't try your Jedi mind tricks on us. To you we are OB1 and Queen Amidala. We've already identified you as a Sith loyal only to your Dark Lord Darth Cheney.

    THE FORCE IS WITH US!


    [​IMG]
     
  13. Greco

    Greco New Member

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    George W. Bush = Alfred E. Newman.... you betcha!
     
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