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Obama vs CLinton

Discussion in 'Elections & Political Parties' started by pocketfullofshells, Aug 24, 2008.

  1. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    ok all you Obama Haters who gush at Clinton for some reason....

    what is the major policy difference between that 2? I think its funny that they basically agree down the board on most thing outside the small details...yet you love one and hate the other....Hate Bush love Obama sure hate Obama love Bush ok...but for 2 people who are as close as they are to me, seems just hate based on nothing.

    And dont cry about experience...Clinton was hardly the most Experienced person running..
     
  2. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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  3. BigRob

    BigRob Well-Known Member

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    I dislike them both lol
     
  4. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    well this was not to you then lol I only wanted those who cry for Clinton to tell me what the big difference is...
     
  5. top gun

    top gun New Member

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    Well of course and that's exactly the point.

    And it's no different than with Joe Biden saying things trying to win in the primary. All those running in the Democratic primary bar maybe Kucinich were basically right down the line on the same page. I'm not exactly sure where Gravel was coming from. He was like the crazy uncle that shows up to the dinner party unannounced.:)

    Since policy was so close all one could do is pick at things that were really just BS personal opinion... I'm better than you stuff. I half expected them to break into who was oldest or tallest or spoke the most languages. That's because they were all really basically on the same page but in a primary you need to try and create some separation from the rest.

    Hillary Clinton had her experience as a Senator and I'd give her maybe an additional half a point for just being around as a First Lady. You put Senator Obama's State Senate & US Senate experience together it weighs out in my opinion as more than Hillary's.

    The fact is state Governors get elected as President a lot not because they know anything much about Federal Government but because they have no real voting record as a Senator or Representative has.

    George Bush was a Governor turned president for Christ sake. If that doesn't say how little experience is really needed to get the job I don't know what is. I mean here's a guy that could fire the starters pistol in the Special Olympics and then take off and run in the race.:D
     
  6. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    You're beating a dead horse on this one... I tried before the nominations were made and the best answer I could get was that Obama was more likable. There really are no substantive, discernible policy differences between the two.
     
  7. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    yet the Clinton backers still act like some evil man who they don't agree with won and not her, thus they should not support anyone or go to the guy who does not agree on almost any of those issues...Kinda retarded if you ask me. Just a guess but I think its mostly woman who are just mad a woman was not going to Be President and that's all it really is. A diff Minority won.
     
  8. Pandora

    Pandora Well-Known Member

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    I hate Obama and I would and did vote for Hillary over him.

    I believe Obama is a huge racist. His time in his chruch conferms that

    I believe Obama doesnt give a rats @$$ about this country. I dont even think he likes this country, he would sell us out in a heart beat. I do not believe he loves our country or would protect it in any way.

    He has zero decent judgement, you can look at the people he is close to in his life to see that.

    I hate his wife, who I also think hates our country. His goal is to make us a socialist nation, Hillary would also like a socialist nation, but I do think she may go about it the wrong way, she does actually love and care about our country.

    I hate John Freaking Kerry and feel just about the exact same way about him as I do Obama, I just have more proof on Obama than I had for Kerry.
     
  9. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    People tend to avoid this discussion with me as well... Where is McCain so different on policy as Obama?
     
  10. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    Abortion
    Iraq
    Taxes McCain Supports Bush Tax cuts...that he never supported before of course...while Obama would lower some taxes and raise some with a raise or ending cuts made by Bush.
    Energy ( he says drill and Nuclear, Obama more conservation and bio fuels and alt energy then McCain)
    Who they would pick for the S.Court would be very different
    Both are against Torture...unless Republicans attack McCain then he is ok with it again it seems...
    Obama for tax credits for college while McCain has pushed for School Vouchers
    McCain I have no idea what his idea is for health care, where as Obama would have a system in place that would let anyone get insurance and mandate all kids have it .

    Just a few....but I would have to ask , McCain 2000 or Mccain 2008? Because the old one was a lot closer on some issues then the 08 version.
     
  11. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    Abortion - I'll give you that one but I don't see that as being a very important policy position. McCain knows there is too much resistance to overturning RvsW and Obama is not going to expand abortion rights for the same reason.

    Iraq - Where are they so different? Obama says he wants a responsible withdraw from Iraq. AKA a draw down, not complete elimination of troops, so as not to have the country fail. Despite the claims by Pop & Top, McCain has been suggesting much the same thing - reduce the violence and get our casualties down so that whatever troops we do station there are safer.

    By the accounts I have seen, both men have advocated for around 50k troops to remain in Iraq - not a significant difference in policy there... both have lied about the others position to make it appear they are worlds apart on that policy when they are not.

    Bush Tax cuts worked... they brought in MORE money to the Government and thats why McCain changed his mind, the facts changed. Now both Men support Cap and Trade policies which are a HUGE tax on consumers of energy. Neither one is very good in on Tax policy... If you want to take a closer look at their respective tax policy suggestions with me, I think you will agree they both leave plenty to be desired.

    Energy - They both are advocates of Efficiency and conservation as being important. Both are advocates of Alternatives. Both are advocates of Bio-Fuels and Both are offering tax breaks and other incentives to help achieve those efforts. Both men also propose command market solutions to these problems rather than truly free market solutions.

    Court picks... You're right about that. Obama would find the most rabid left wing judges he could find while McCain would surely pick people the hard right would object to.

    Federal College money is a scam. Why doesn't anyone complain about the price gouging that goes on there? Rates increase by more than double the rate of inflation yet nobody is calling for a windfall profits tax on colleges... instead the answer is to throw more money at the problem and hope it corrects itself.

    Healthcare... lets talk about this one if you like. Bring the specifics, if you can find any, relating to Obama's plan and I'll do the same for McCain - also if I can find any.

    Both McCain and Obama would:
    • Increase the debt
    • Increase Taxes
    • Increase Government regulations
    • Increase the size of Government
    • Limit individual freedoms
    • Limit spending in some areas while letting it balloon in others
    • Reduce our standard of living
    • Threaten new wars (Iran and Pakistan)
    • Be politically polarizing figures and would fail to "unite" the country
     
  12. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

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    On Iraq I think the positions are closer now, becuse they have to be, Iraq is saying get out now...McCain cant realy say keep 150,000 troops for Iraq...when Iraqs leaders say no get out....Look at there policy 2 years ago and its far from the same. ( and note that I supported the Surge idea more as a way to get our troops out faster long ago, so I am not in agreement on Obama on that , but closer to Mccain...but now I think its did its job and Its time for Obama 16month plan vs McCains....just stay plan

    * Increase the debt ( dems Reduced it, Republicans increased it....I know who I will trust. Also I think having the right advisors in place will I hope keep spending in check)
    * Increase Taxes On some, and I am fine with it. Bush lowered them while we where in a time of war ( 2 of them) and then spend more even...someone has to pay those bills...
    * Increase Government regulations I am fine with that...in some areas...want more in others...I dont just hate all regulations some have good reason...somre are worthless and get in the way.

    * Increase the size of Government...name one leader in 100 years that reduced it...10 bucks says under both , it increases...
    * Limit individual freedoms .
    Bush left us any? Bush I think lead the biggest attack on our Freedoms in my lifetime. If anything I think a Dem in the white house will I hope give some back.
    * Limit spending in some areas while letting it balloon in others...thats kinda standard I think ....you dont htink McCain will spend more in some areas?
    * Reduce our standard of living...Solve Health care, and I like the Dems better on that...and its alreayd better for me.

    * Threaten new wars (Iran and Pakistan) Bush started it with Iran, and I dont see Obama going to war With Iran...McCain...I dont know, his Bomb Iran jokes dont make me think its as unlikey with him. Biden on the Dems side knows how bad a idea it would be I dont think Obama would be looking for Military action. Packistan...they want to keep bin Ladin and Al Quida in he border area and not act...fine we act. I could care less if they get pissed. What are they going to do? nothing, ***** and cry, thats it. If we haev intel or targets over the border, i say hit them.. And hit them hard.

    * Be politically polarizing figures and would fail to "unite" the country
    I think Bush did about as much as you can Polarizing the nation....what a great Uniter he was.
     
  13. GenSeneca

    GenSeneca Well-Known Member

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    You kinda ducked my overall point on how close they were by bringing Bush into the fray... he's not running.

    someone has to pay those bills...
    The Democrats are saying the Rich and Big Business should pay those bills, rather than all Americans sharing the burden - which would FORCE Americans to wake the F up and demand better government.

    10 bucks says under both , it increases...
    Entirely my point. There are members of the Republican side that would do it if they had the power, like Ron Paul but he's too extreme and gets no support. Conservatives in Congress push for realistic and achievable reductions but they get attacked as being against the poor, or minorities or whatever special interest group they are being accused of hating for bringing up such proposals.

    Bush I think lead the biggest attack on our Freedoms in my lifetime.
    Clinton has policies in place that were far more intrusive abuses of our freedoms but Democrats and Republicans worked together to keep them from the public. Bush brought all those illegal and secret programs into the open, gave them to the public and you hate him for it... I think Bush has done a wonderful job of exposing the old programs to public scrutiny, adding much needed oversight and most importantly - giving them Sunset Clauses!

    you dont htink McCain will spend more in some areas?
    I said Both Men would do this... All my points were about both.

    Reduce our standard of living...Solve Health care
    The Democrat solutions completely ignore some of the biggest reasons for the cost increases and instead choose to find ways to use it as an excuse to socialize the HC system... Which would greatly benefit the Rich, who could still afford private alternatives, and screw the rest of us to dealing with yet another financially failing bureaucratic nightmare, like what we have with Medicare and Medicaid.

    I could care less if they get pissed. What are they going to do?
    What happened to your faith in diplomacy? What happened to the indignation about the go-it-alone-cowboy policies of Bush? Besides, my point still remains - McCain has pledged to hunt down bin laden and capture or kill him, has Obama made the same kind of promise or not?

    I think Bush did about as much as you can Polarizing the nation....what a great Uniter he was.
    There's no need to go there... Clinton was too and Bush Sr. before him, thats the way things are and its for that reason I find it disingenuous for Obama, and his supporters, to claim he will be somehow different and able to unite the country.

    Increase the debt ( dems Reduced it, Republicans increased it
    How they did it is important. Clinton cut the crap outta the military and we cannot do that this time around. Clinton also had a Republican Majority who championed Welfare reform and together they got over 33% of recipients off the rolls. Democrats are firmly in control of Congress now and are looking to expand all the non-discretionary spending to unheard of levels.
     
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