Public Plan; Watch Joe Scarborough Freeze-UP!!!!

[BigRob]

No, no not what I heard Congressional Weiner say: "We currently have a single payer system in place now you either have an insurance company that dictates what they pay and cover or you have the Medicare/Medicaid system so the hype about those issues is MOOT!" He's so very spot on about that as to be clairvoyant and that was about the point in time that poor Joe become stupefied! AND THAT WAS FUNNY!

And as far as your 'cheerleader comment goes'...I personally can't abide them but that was what got the children fixated in fixing my reputations in the first place! ROTFLMAO

He states right in the beginning that he thinks we need a system like Medicare for all Americans. He also claims that we need something to compete against the insurance companies, ignoring the fact that without government interference to begin with, insurance companies could compete against themselves in a much better way.

So, why would we want to move to a system for all Americans that is currently going bankrupt, and as the GAO states is ripe with fraud and waste? If the government is unable to clean their own system up, what makes anyone think they can do it more effectively than a private insurer?

 

[TruthAboveAll]

How about we see them reform Medicare so that it wont go broke before attempting to overhaul the entire system?

Bingo! Fix what you've got now, before you try to fix mine.

And they can take a couple of their blue (-in-the-face) states and give it a good old try.

 

[top gun]

I missed most of that but caught the Dem. Congressman Weiner on the following show with Dylan - Morning Meeting (or whatever it's called)
Man, if we could just clone Mr. Weiner and allow him to set up meeting around the USA...things might, just might be able to be explained for all of those 'anger filled confused' other thinking Americans.

But I heard Joe on a reply later around lunch; saying he, had misunderstood what Mr. Weiner had meant and it wasn't until the break from the commercial that Joe was saying; "now I clearly understand what it was that you were saying"...DUH!!!
Someone have to draw him a picture or what

It reminded me of that 'live in infamy' moment when he dropped the 'F BOMB' and Mika had to keep telling him: "you said a bad, bad word, OUT LOUD...yes, you did"!!! LMAO

I completely agree with you on Congressman Weiner.

I saw him on Hard Ball and he tells it like it is, doesn't back down an inch, and doesn't care who likes it... his Party, the other Party, doesn't care! He must be very safe in his district. You don't see many like him.

This ain't the old peace & love Liberal! We need boatloads like this guy!

 

[top gun]

A split in the democratic party is currently threatening to kill any bill whatsoever, and all your care about is if some news anchor had a deer in headlights moment?

When you make a good point I have to give it to ya... I see this a little too!

I'm hoping this is really all just posturing and I think at the end of the day the Dems will see they all raise or fall on a Bill being legislated. Plus I think President Obama is sand bagging a little. He's started out asking for more than he ever expected to get... that's just good negotiating technique.

To be perfectly honest with you I myself believe single payer is the best way to go but don't believe it's politically feasible. It's true that if the enormous insurance profits were all put back into care the would be a huge windfall. But then you also have the unemployment of insurance company workers and I don't like that.

A compromise that gives people any affordable coverage option not tied to their employer and competes at least a little with private insurance is a good compromise in my book.

 

[top gun]

That is like saying in order to "fix" the post office we must first fix UPS and Fedex. That argument is ridiculous.

The GAO has identified Medicare as a program ripe with waste and fraud. You do not need to overhaul the healthcare system to fix fraud within one aspect of it.

There's good and bad here though you have to admit. The bad is there is a lot more fraud in Medicare than private insurance. That no doubt needs tightened up.

But from a strictly cost of operation standpoint Medicare blows private insurance away. I think at the Town Hall the numbers were like Medicare has a 2% or 3% cost to run and private insurance depending on who it is is like 20% and often much more.

Medicare Versus Private Insurance:
Rhetoric And Reality

Medicare provides a level of security that is not typically
found in employer or individual coverage markets.

by Karen Davis, Cathy Schoen, Michelle Doty, and Katie Tenney

Many policymakers have called for the remodeling of Medicare to more closely resemble private insurance, which is often assumed to work better than public programs do. However, evidence from this 2001 survey demonstrates that Medicare beneficiaries are generally more satisfied with their health care than are persons under age sixty-five who are covered by private insurance. Medicare beneficiaries report fewer problems getting access to care, greater confidence about their access, and fewer instances of financial hardship as a result of medical bills. Making the program more like private insurance runs the risk of undermining a program that is working well from the perspective of beneficiaries.

 

[top gun]

He states right in the beginning that he thinks we need a system like Medicare for all Americans. He also claims that we need something to compete against the insurance companies, ignoring the fact that without government interference to begin with, insurance companies could compete against themselves in a much better way.

So, why would we want to move to a system for all Americans that is currently going bankrupt, and as the GAO states is ripe with fraud and waste? If the government is unable to clean their own system up, what makes anyone think they can do it more effectively than a private insurer?

The "bankrupt" thing is if you project years out without any changes. And the reason that it has problems is in the make up of it's clients... older more elderly, often with major medical problems.

If the pool also included young mostly all healthy people the numbers would be completely different. It's not like healthcare is ever going to be free. It's how do we keep costs down & coverage up.

We pay for healthcare for people without insurance anyway. That was another interesting stat from the Town Hall. On average $1000 per year on every single insured persons premiums goes to cover the cost of the uninsured that show up to emergency rooms for the only care they can get.

And that gets us the absolute worst bang for those bucks. Instead of say paying say $100 per hour at a regular doctor and emergency room visit could cost $500, $600, $700 per hour.

All things to take into consideration.

 

[Pandora]

There's good and bad here though you have to admit. The bad is there is a lot more fraud in Medicare than private insurance. That no doubt needs tightened up.

If you admit that there is more fraud in the government program than in the private program then why are you advocating for us to move to an all government program.

The rejects in government should fix the fraud and show that they can do it before they even consider asking us to change to a government program.

 

[BigRob]

There's good and bad here though you have to admit. The bad is there is a lot more fraud in Medicare than private insurance. That no doubt needs tightened up.

Yes, it should be tightened up.

But from a strictly cost of operation standpoint Medicare blows private insurance away. I think at the Town Hall the numbers were like Medicare has a 2% or 3% cost to run and private insurance depending on who it is is like 20% and often much more.

This number is somewhat misleading. Yes that is there overhead, but it is the cost of the overhead that they bother to count. Unfunded mandates handed out by Medicare are simply ignored as part of "overhead" and more or less "taken off the books." A private company would never be able to do that.

Medicare Versus Private Insurance:
Rhetoric And Reality

Medicare provides a level of security that is not typically
found in employer or individual coverage markets.

It provides this by being unable to function of a level that is not driving it towards bankruptcy. With infinite dollars, I would imagine anyone could provide a good system. Problem is, we do not have infinite money.

by Karen Davis, Cathy Schoen, Michelle Doty, and Katie Tenney

Many policymakers have called for the remodeling of Medicare to more closely resemble private insurance, which is often assumed to work better than public programs do. However, evidence from this 2001 survey demonstrates that Medicare beneficiaries are generally more satisfied with their health care than are persons under age sixty-five who are covered by private insurance. Medicare beneficiaries report fewer problems getting access to care, greater confidence about their access, and fewer instances of financial hardship as a result of medical bills. Making the program more like private insurance runs the risk of undermining a program that is working well from the perspective of beneficiaries.

People liking the system does not mean that we can suddenly afford it.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

He states right in the beginning that he thinks we need a system like Medicare for all Americans. He also claims that we need something to compete against the insurance companies, ignoring the fact that without government interference to begin with, insurance companies could compete against themselves in a much better way.

A SYSTEM LIKE MEDICARE...so since he used that word 'MEDICARE' you missed the rest of his conversation (just asking cause I don't know how you got so stuck on that)? That is basically what our health care reform would encompass, maybe not right tomorrow but eventually. And if you think things are going to survive in this status quo then just hold onto your helmet cause they have no idea just how or what the 'baby boomers' are going to do to 'MEDICARE' once my generation hits the skids!!!

So, why would we want to move to a system for all Americans that is currently going bankrupt, and as the GAO states is ripe with fraud and waste? If the government is unable to clean their own system up, what makes anyone think they can do it more effectively than a private insurer?

Insurance companies - policing themselves Would make as much sense as the meat packing industry being their own inspectors for health standards...it just doesn't work that way. Greed and slimy less thinking humans always find a way to let something slide by!!!

 

[BigRob]

A SYSTEM LIKE MEDICARE... so since he used that word 'MEDICARE' you missed the rest of his conversation (just asking cause I don't know how you got so stuck on that)?

So we want a system like a system that cannot function and is going bankrupt?

That is basically what our health care reform would encompass, maybe not right tomorrow but eventually. And if you think things are going to survive in this status quo then just hold onto your helmet cause they have no idea just how or what the 'baby boomers' are going to do to 'MEDICARE' once my generation hits the skids!!!

I could support health reform. I would support the elimination of the HMO, and tax cuts to individuals to buy their own insurance. Tort reform obviously would be good.

I am for health reform, just not this version of it.

Insurance companies - policing themselves Would make as much sense as the meat packing industry being their own inspectors for health standards...it just doesn't work that way. Greed and slimy less thinking humans always find a way to let something slide by!!!

Policing themselves does not amount to competing with each other, which is what I said they needed. Look at Medicare Part-D, insurance companies competed for patients in that program, and the cost was much lower than originally estimated by the CBO. Why? Competition.

In fact the Republican alternative to the Democrat plan (outlined in HR 2520 and S. 1099) offers reform through insurance exchanges handled in the private market. While those bills have some problems, I think they are quite better than HR 3200, and the ideas in the Senate.

 

[BigRob]

The "bankrupt" thing is if you project years out without any changes. And the reason that it has problems is in the make up of it's clients... older more elderly, often with major medical problems.

Obama himself says within a decade it will be in bankrupt. Additionally, as the baby boomers retire, there will be a huge influx of elderly, often with major medical problems, thus making the problem worse.

If the pool also included young mostly all healthy people the numbers would be completely different. It's not like healthcare is ever going to be free. It's how do we keep costs down & coverage up.

I do not follow this statement. You claim the problem with Medicare costs is that there are a lot of old people, so this problem will be solved by adding young people...

Where are the old people going to go? Why does this make their costs less? Currently, the government cannot the small amount it does on Medicare without running a huge deficit on it, what will make it different by adding more people?

Further, in order to accomplish a pool creation of this size, you would all but have to mandate away private insurance, which seems somewhat unconstitutional in my view.

We pay for healthcare for people without insurance anyway. That was another interesting stat from the Town Hall. On average $1000 per year on every single insured persons premiums goes to cover the cost of the uninsured that show up to emergency rooms for the only care they can get.

The population of the United States is in the ballpark of 315 million. I will go will the high estimate of 50 million, so that leaves us with 275 million people with coverage. So you claim that we spend $275 billion a year to pay for those who go the ER?

Medicare covers around 45 million people and it was estimated that it would cost 2.8 trillion over 10 years in 2007. Per year that is around $280 billion right? So Medicare is as cost efficient as no insurance is what you are telling me?

And that gets us the absolute worst bang for those bucks. Instead of say paying say $100 per hour at a regular doctor and emergency room visit could cost $500, $600, $700 per hour.

All things to take into consideration.

See above.

Not to mention, Obama stated he would not sign a bill that added to the deficit. However, the CBO estimates that HR 3200 would add $239 billion to the deficit, but the Kennedy plan in the Senate would is estimated to add $1 trillion over 10 years. So what exactly of these proposals could he even sign?