1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Discuss politics - join our community by registering for free here! HOP - the political discussion forum

Reformation in Islam

Discussion in 'Culture & Religion' started by Coyote, Feb 27, 2008.

  1. Coyote

    Coyote Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Coyote died for your sheep
    An interesting movement towards a very major reformation is going on in Turkey - a reformation as radical as Martin Luther's reformation in Christianity. They are attempting to return to the original values of Islam.


    Turkey in radical revision of Islamic texts
    By Robert Pigott
    Religious affairs correspondent, BBC News

    Turkey is preparing to publish a document that represents a revolutionary reinterpretation of Islam - and a controversial and radical modernisation of the religion. The country's powerful Department of Religious Affairs has commissioned a team of theologians at Ankara University to carry out a fundamental revision of the Hadith, the second most sacred text in Islam after the Koran. The Hadith is a collection of thousands of sayings reputed to come from the Prophet Muhammad. As such, it is the principal guide for Muslims in interpreting the Koran and the source of the vast majority of Islamic law, or Sharia.

    But the Turkish state has come to see the Hadith as having an often negative influence on a society it is in a hurry to modernise, and believes it responsible for obscuring the original values of Islam. It says that a significant number of the sayings were never uttered by Muhammad, and even some that were need now to be reinterpreted.

    Commentators say the very theology of Islam is being reinterpreted in order to effect a radical renewal of the religion. Its supporters say the spirit of logic and reason inherent in Islam at its foundation 1,400 years ago are being rediscovered. Some believe it could represent the beginning of a reformation in the religion.

    Turkish officials have been reticent about the revision of the Hadith until now, aware of the controversy it is likely to cause among traditionalist Muslims, but they have spoken to the BBC about the project, and their ambitious aims for it. The forensic examination of the Hadiths has taken place in Ankara University's School of Theology. An adviser to the project, Felix Koerner, says some of the sayings - also known individually as "hadiths" - can be shown to have been invented hundreds of years after the Prophet Muhammad died, to serve the purposes of contemporary society.

    "Unfortunately you can even justify through alleged hadiths, the Muslim - or pseudo-Muslim - practice of female genital mutilation," he says.

    "You can find messages which say 'that is what the Prophet ordered us to do'. But you can show historically how they came into being, as influences from other cultures, that were then projected onto Islamic tradition."

    Leaders of the Hadith project say successive generations have embellished the text, attributing their political aims to the Prophet Muhammad himself. Turkey is intent on sweeping away that "cultural baggage" and returning to a form of Islam it claims accords with its original values and those of the Prophet.

    But this is where the revolutionary nature of the work becomes apparent. Even some sayings accepted as being genuinely spoken by Muhammad have been altered and reinterpreted.

    Prof Mehmet Gormez, a senior official in the Department of Religious Affairs and an expert on the Hadith, gives a telling example. "There are some messages that ban women from travelling for three days or more without their husband's permission and they are genuine. "But this isn't a religious ban. It came about because in the Prophet's time it simply wasn't safe for a woman to travel alone like that. But as time has passed, people have made permanent what was only supposed to be a temporary ban for safety reasons." The project justifies such bold interference in the 1,400-year-old content of the Hadith by rigorous academic research. Prof Gormez points out that in another speech, the Prophet said "he longed for the day when a woman might travel long distances alone". So, he argues, it is clear what the Prophet's goal was.

    <snip>

    They have also taken an even bolder step - rejecting a long-established rule of Muslim scholars that later (and often more conservative) texts override earlier ones.

    "You have to see them as a whole," says Fadi Hakura.

    "You can't say, for example, that the verses of violence override the verses of peace. This is used a lot in the Middle East, this kind of ideology.

    "I cannot impress enough how fundamental [this change] is."

    To read the entire article:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7264903.stm
     
  2. bewitched

    bewitched New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Location, Location
    maybe they can start by withdrawing their tanks from Northern Iraq.
     
  3. Coyote

    Coyote Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2007
    Messages:
    2,213
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Coyote died for your sheep
    Why? We set a precedent by invading...kinda foolish if we tell everyone else they can't join the party.
     
  4. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    12,009
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    land of 10,000 lakes and 2 senators again
    Maybe next then can just say Kurds take half our nation ....its just as likely

    But I think a renewal of Islam is needed, to purge the filth that has overtaken it it many areas. Problem is the ones against it, are the ones in power, or so psycho they will kill those who have called for it just like I Pakistan so recently.

    One day Americans will wake up and notice that the "war on terror" is as much a war on the direction of Islam against others in Islam, as it against the west if not far more.
     
  5. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Bristol
    I love it... modify, manipulate and do whatever to the 'word of God'.
     
  6. numinus

    numinus New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,525
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There is nothing wrong with employing logical rigor to an ancient text. Otherwise, even a dictionary can be used for any political end.
     
  7. numinus

    numinus New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,525
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Maybe this is a sign for logical rigor among the posters in this forum as well.
     
  8. bewitched

    bewitched New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Location, Location
    so muslims can take Kosovo from Christians but Kurds can't take land from muslims? I see. that's how it works.
    in Africa... muslims can take tribal lands... but tribes have to move to refugee camps or face genocide. hmmmm.

    problem with purging the filth is that... more muslims like what you call "filth" and don't want to purge it. and the filth grows.

    many people are aware that Islam has waged war against the West. they have said it loud and clear... it's the West who is deaf.
     
  9. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Bristol
    But surely Islam is Islam, the word of God through Allah, and what is written in the texts is what is the truth and to obey anything else or to change it is to go against it.
     
  10. vyo476

    vyo476 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,401
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    What is written in the texts is the truth for all believers. It's how they look at it (and even how they define "truth") that makes the difference.
     
  11. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Bristol
    Yes, but 'controversial and radical modernisation' sounds to me like its being changed to fit whatever it needs to.
     
  12. numinus

    numinus New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,525
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ...fundamental revision of the Hadith, the second most sacred text in Islam after the Koran...

    It's like revising dogma, not the gospels.
     
  13. 9sublime

    9sublime Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2007
    Messages:
    2,620
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    Bristol
    It seems to me like religion is being used as a tool that can be changed and manipulated to fit an agenda and dominate over people... never seen that happen before.
     
  14. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    12,009
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    land of 10,000 lakes and 2 senators again
    well being that they are 90% of the population, and there was the whole genocidal war, i am willing to let them have it yes. But as far as if they want to, that's a internal affair. As for the Kurds. there is no Kurdistan there never was, and the area generaly known to be what they want is in Iran, Turkey, and Iraq...somehow I dont see thee nations being carved up at random anytime soon to form a new nation. If they do, it will then be judged if we should support it, not now.

    Also did I ever say I support what is going on in Africa? no, I guess you just assume that..
     
  15. pocketfullofshells

    pocketfullofshells Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2008
    Messages:
    12,009
    Likes Received:
    203
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    land of 10,000 lakes and 2 senators again
    All religions are always fit to what ever people need. The bible was used to promote Slavery, it was also used to end Segregation and Jim Crow laws...same book just used to fit what people wanted at the time.
     
Loading...

Share This Page