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Something To Think About

Discussion in 'Elections & Political Parties' started by Old_Trapper70, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    People like you that lack the ability to think outside of the little box they have confined themselves to always, and I mean always, have to lower themselves to claiming another is a "marxist", or following that ideology. What you do show is you have not a clue as to what Marxism is. I would suggest you learn about the term before using it.

    In the meantime, when Jefferson wrote that only the rich should be taxed, was he a "Marxist"? When Christ told the rich young ruler to give away all of his money, was He a "Marxist"? When Franklin, and the US Congress, passed a law to provide free healthcare for the poor, were they "Marxist"?

    Is there someway people of your ilk can climb out of this lower intellectual standard you have set for yourself, and actually begin to think for yourselves? I seriously doubt it.
     
  2. PLC1

    PLC1 Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, time for a change.

    But, a change to Trump would be like a change from having a cold to developing pneumonia.
     
  3. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    He may not be the ideal for a new way but he's all there is. It's a start.
     
  4. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    A start for what? The guy is a fascist, and a liar. Hell, people like you thought Hitler would be start too.

    BTW, I don't think a guy is a success just because he found a way to make money off going bankrupt. He sure as hell wasn't a success for the people he screwed out of their money. Kind of like his "self financing". He loans his campaign money to run on, and they will expect the RNC to pay if back to him after the election is over.

    http://www.dailyrecord.com/story/opinion/2016/04/01/trump-hitler-comparisons-merit/82516244/

    Hitler’s special skill in selling himself was his uncanny ability to intuit crowd mood. He understood that he had to reach past the nitty-gritty of desperate 1920s pocketbook issues to the German people’s sense of themselves. “The question of the recovery of the German people (from World War I) is not a question of economic recovery,” he wrote in an internal party memorandum. Regaining an “inner feeling” was the key, he explained, because only that could lead again to “national greatness.” Germans, not merely defeated but humiliated by the war’s aftermath, craved self-respect even more than bread, Hitler rightly sensed.

    Sound familiar? While Donald Trump is no killer, he shares Hitler’s goal of national greatness. Like Hitler, Trump has a preternatural sense of crowd mood and the voters’ inner needs, not just their material distress. They want, even more than badly needed jobs and security, a sense of their own value in an unmoored world.

    And, like Hitler, Trump offers the same route to achieving renewed greatness: himself. A born demagogue believes that only he has the skills needed to save the day.
     
  5. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    Godwin's law has sunk you.
    Every pol who uses his own money does so as a loan.
     
  6. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Is there a difference between referring to one as a "Hitler" type, and referring to one as a "Marxist", or "socialist", type?

    Yes, but not every pol claims to be self financing. However, I do not know of any politician, especially those running for President (maybe some local ones) who has used his own money unless you consider their "war chests" to be their "own" money. Maybe you could find the rules that say a candidate will be paid back.
     
  7. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    As you thought this was a gotcha, it's not surprising you are unaware.
    A candidate may or may not get paid back. Most use this to bridge uneven donations or if they are little known like Mark Warner just can't raise money.
    Have you heard of Ross Perot ? Mitt Romney ?
    Godwin wrote the rule. Take it up with him.
     
  8. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    What is not surprising is your failure to answer the question, and instead rely on some mindless babbling.

    However, you are the one who cited it as some form of authority. Then too, you seem to have no clue as to what "Godwin's Law" is. In fact, when your fellow traveler in the dark world of "no nothings" declared me to be a "socialist" (such a tremor of fear encompassed my whole being even at the very thought), you said nothing even though "Godwin's Law" could just as easily apply to such a comment. However, people such as yourself who lack the ability to have an intelligent, and rational, debate, now have this "jingoism" to counter the 4-letter "N" word, "Nazi". So now my ideas, or that of any other, "nazi like". Now you can rest easy knowing you need not refute my point. You merely speak the new "jingoism" "Godwin's Law'. You seem to think that it is never fair to use the term "Nazi" or "Nazilike". Thus, true scholarly analysis then becomes uninformed idiocy.
     
  9. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    I am afraid that it is you who is in the box...but apparently you have painted the walls so nicely to portray what you wish the world were like that you have even fooled yourself. And of course you are a marxist...practically everything you say screams it. You wish for socialism and marxism is a pre socialist philosophy.

    Jefferson was talking about the royal/serf situation in europe...certainly nothing to do with this nation...but then your marxist leanings won't let you perceive that truth will they?

    Was he talking about nationalizing the means of production? You seem to be the one who doesn't have a clue...the more you talk, the more clear that becomes...when you know so little about a topic that you can't even come up with an apt analogy, you really have a lot to learn

    Clearly you don't know what marxism is...or American history....Franklin advocated a single hospital, raised the money himself, and asked for matching funds...and said that it was a matter of Christian Charity...are you now advocating Christian charity from government and all that entails?
     
  10. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    Clearly you don't know what fascism is either...you think Trump wants to nationalize the means of production?...that's the foundation of fascism. Can you point to any comment he has made that would lead you to believe such a thing or are you just talking out of your ass....again?

    Don't know much about German history either, huh? Hitler didn't put Germans in contact with their sense of themselves...he gave them someone to blame their problems on other than themselves...much like you. You want to blame everyone who doesn't promote your socialist dream when it is the socialist dream that is at the root of the problems we are facing.

    Spoken like a true propagandist...the opposite of a socialist is exactly what is required to start correcting the problems created by politicians in this country with a socialist dream.
     
  11. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    You are a marxist....Trump is not a fascist...
     
  12. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that the nazis were not capitalists...they aimed to nationalize the means of production and thereby socialize the people...that is the essence of national socialism...not at all what Trump has in mind...therefore your reference to nazis is exactly what Godwin's law references. Godwin's law is framed as a memetic tool to reduce the incidence of inappropriate hyperbolic comparisons which is precisely what your fallacious comparison of trump to nazis is. You should have considered broader subject matter when you painted the inside of that little box of yours then you wouldn't be left comparing a raging free market capitalist to his polar and political opposite...a nazi.
     
  13. dogtowner

    dogtowner Moderator Staff Member

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    The letter of ole TJ's in question was speaking specifically to running the govt on import tariffs alone. He contended that only the monied consumed imports and so the rest should not be subject to them.
    Other than that his main thing was making revenue the domain of those pols subject to popular vote. At that time senate was to not be selected by popular vote.
     
  14. palerider

    palerider Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, he has painted the inside of that little box he lives in so well that he has fooled himself....but then few marxists have any conception of reality anyway...they believe socialism will work and its complete failure every time it is tried is just some sort of coincidence.
     
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  15. Old_Trapper70

    Old_Trapper70 Well-Known Member

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    Since when did Trump become a "capitalist"? He has made more money off the bankruptcy courts, and illegal workers, then off his own efforts.

    http://www.redstate.com/diary/Socrates/2016/03/05/donald-trump-capitalist/

    As to Godwin's "law", it could apply to most any subject, and should not be limited to just Nazism. In this day, and age, it would apply to your use of "Marxism" when you have painted yourself into the box with no way out. And since you cannot logically, or rationally, debate a topic you have to refer to this personal attack "explanation for what the constitution was, and was not....go take a look and see if you see any of your marxist ideals described therein. Here is a hint...they aren't." So, rather then even attempt to explain away the "marxist" beliefs of Jefferson, Franklin, Christ, etc. (by your definition), or to even cite one sentence from the Federalist papers to disprove what I had said, you again make a fool of yourself.

    BTW, if you had the intellect to understand what was said you would have understood that the comparison of Trump to Hitler as used in the article was quite accurate.

    And as to the failure of socialism, fools like you seem never to be able to understand that "socialism" in America has worked quite well. Even assholes like you have benefited from it.
     
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