The US in twenty years' time

[Dawkinsrocks]

Oh I see

Could someone tell The People's Republic of China please that some right wing poster in the US has some news for them?

 

[PLC1]

Oh I see

Could someone tell The People's Republic of China please that some right wing poster in the US has some news for them?

China is not a Communist nation, and hasn't been for some time now. It may not exactly be a democracy, but it is a capitalist nation. Why do you think it suddenly started to be a major player in international trade?

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

You can say what you like China is known by itself and the world as a communist country

Maybe you would do better arguing that capitalism is dead

You could cite lots of examples such as the US

 

[PLC1]

You can say what you like China is known by itself and the world as a communist country

Maybe you would do better arguing that capitalism is dead

You could cite lots of examples such as the US

You could say that, but it wouldn't be true.
and China can call itself the Kingdom of Narnia if it wants to, but that doesn't make it so. The plain fact is that China does not have a means of production run by the central government and shared by all Chinese equally. What it does have is international corporations operating on a capitalist model.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

I could use the reasoning back on you re capitalism and the US

I suppose you could have a point regarding what a country calls itself

After all the US calls itself the land of the free and the home of the brave

 

[PLC1]

I could use the reasoning back on you re capitalism and the US

I suppose you could have a point regarding what a country calls itself

After all the US calls itself the land of the free and the home of the brave

and you have evidence that it is not?

If so, why not present it?

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Ok

It supports the use of concentration camps to imprison people on trumped up charges for years without trial

It's institutional racism condemns millions of black people to the imprisonment of poverty

It's institutional racism condemn a significantly higher % of black poeple to wrongful conviction an even execution

It executes minors

It sanctions the use of torture

The US attacks lots of smaller countries that are not attacking it and do not have anything like the firepower to fight back
It does not do this to countries that could. Very brave

Do you need me to continue?

 

[BigRob]

The fact is that China owns the US and if it called its loans in the US is toast.

What does this statement even mean? China cant "call in its loans", that shows a fundamental lack of understanding about how debt is issued.

US debt is financed in Treasury Bills...these are not "loans", they are bonds. A bond works in the following manner: Person A gives person B a fixed amount of money....Person B pays periodic interest payments to Person A and then the principle when the bond matures.

It is simply not possible to say "I want my money back now", because that is not how a bond works.

At most, all China could do is attempt to sell the bonds on the open market to another buyer..however, another buyer is going to want the same assurances China had when they originally bought them, so it would seemingly be quite tough to "dump" bonds, even at a lower price. Not to mention, China buys these bonds in US dollars and the bonds are paid back in US dollars. We could literally just print money to pay back the principle if it really came down to it (which it wont given the structure of the system).

Or, they could stop buying bonds -- but that is another subject entirely from this imaginary "calling in of loans" you are talking about.

 

[BigRob]

In twenty years' time most big US cities will be ghettos run by gangs.

Unemployment will be running at 25 %+

Crime will be endemic

In fact it will be like Cormack Mcarthy's 'the road'

You are making wild assumptions 25 years out based on fantasy. If you were sitting in the middle of the dot com boom predicting growth would continue forever, maybe someone would believe you, but in reality, that does not occur.

China is going to have a lot of problems as time goes on, just as we (and everyone else) are too. You cannot make predictions based on what we know for 25 years out in this regard.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Oh sorry big bob, thanks for the education

I don't like posting links as you can find a website that will support any view but do you think you could tell these guys that there is no US debt held by Chin please?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/12/17/china-cuts-u-s-debt-holdings/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15362618

I could have pasted lots more but I reckon a smart guy like you can see where this is going

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

If you think the predicted demise of the US is based on wild assumptions you are seriously deluded

Tell me about the good news which shows I have got it wrong

Maybe China won't overtake it but every credible witness says it will

maybe the US won't run out of oil

Maybe it will start making cheap quality goods

Maybe it will stop its outrageous consumption

But I doubt it

 

[PLC1]

Ok

It supports the use of concentration camps to imprison people on trumped up charges for years without trial

It's institutional racism condemns millions of black people to the imprisonment of poverty

It's institutional racism condemn a significantly higher % of black poeple to wrongful conviction an even execution

It executes minors

It sanctions the use of torture

The US attacks lots of smaller countries that are not attacking it and do not have anything like the firepower to fight back
It does not do this to countries that could. Very brave

Do you need me to continue?

No, that's already more than enough unsupported opinions.

If the US is so terrible and racist and all, why is it that so many people from other nations want to come here to live?

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

Unsupported claims?

So you liven in the US and you don't know about gtmo concentration camp?

Oh dear

You aren't aware of the bias against black people everywhere and especially in the justice system?

You are not aware of the US attacking countries like Iraq and AghRnistan and many others?

My god, it is worse than I thought. You should open your eyes and ears as everything I wrote is happening on a massive scale and you are clearly in denial

Most of the people going to live in the US now are immigrants from south America which is a collection of countries that have been trashed by US military and economic activities. They buy the dream of the US sold on tv adverts and then live the nightmare of life in a country that hates Mexican immigrants but hires them to save money

 

[BigRob]

Oh sorry big bob, thanks for the education

I don't like posting links as you can find a website that will support any view but do you think you could tell these guys that there is no US debt held by Chin please?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/12/17/china-cuts-u-s-debt-holdings/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15362618

I could have pasted lots more but I reckon a smart guy like you can see where this is going

I reckon someone like you can point out where I made the statement that the Chinese do not hold a lot US debt?

The commentary was over whether the Chinese can "call in their loans" (your statement), which is false -- you can't "call in" a bond. Responding that the Chinese do in fact hold a lot of debt (s0mething no one has disputed) in no way shape or form relates to the issue at hand.

 

[Dawkinsrocks]

To be fair you have a point and I was talking in lay terms

Apart from the problem that the US might never be able to meet the debt it has incurred the Chinese have a massive hold over the value of the dollar and they could wreak havoc with this.

Granted it would hurt them too but they could do it