Why is so wrong to torture terrorists POWs?

[XCALIDEM]

Do you believe that torturing captured Al Qaeda's prisoners is the wrong method of interrogation?

I'm just wondering why congress and everyone who want to be so politically and moral correct what to make a big issue about this.

When our soldiers are captured, they sure don't get taken to a 5 star hotel and given a 3 course meal.

I remember watching the news, early in the Iraq war, how the AL-QAEDA would show our soldiers being be-headed, just to put fear on our troops.

Bieng this the case, why should they have every right and be treated as being a U.S. Citizen?

 

[The Scotsman]

Depends what your definition of torture is and are you including violent death?

 

[XCALIDEM]

Depends what your definition of torture is and are you including violent death?

Here are the examples of the most common methods used by CIA:



1. The Attention Grab: The interrogator forcefully grabs the shirt front of the prisoner and shakes him.

2. Attention Slap: An open-handed slap aimed at causing pain and triggering fear.

3. The Belly Slap: A hard open-handed slap to the stomach. The aim is to cause pain, but not internal injury. Doctors consulted advised against using a punch, which could cause lasting internal damage.

4. Long Time Standing: This technique is described as among the most effective. Prisoners are forced to stand, handcuffed and with their feet shackled to an eye bolt in the floor for more than 40 hours. Exhaustion and sleep deprivation are effective in yielding confessions.

5. The Cold Cell: The prisoner is left to stand naked in a cell kept near 50 degrees. Throughout the time in the cell the prisoner is doused with cold water.

6. Water Boarding: The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.

I think that they fall short in comparison to what Al qaeda does to their prisoners.

 

[XCALIDEM]

How-to’ Manual Found in Al Qaeda Safe House Shows Disturbing Torture Methods
Sunday , May 27, 2007



ADVERTISEMENT
WASHINGTON —

Al Qaeda terrorists use blow torches, electric drills and meat cleavers to torture and force information out of their victims, according to a "how-to" book discovered in a terrorist safe house in Iraq.

The Defense Department recently released disturbing images and cartoons showing how to torture a captive found by American forces during a raid on a Al Qaeda safe house a few weeks ago. They also found photos of tortured Iraqi victims.

Click here to view the Al Qaeda 'torture handbook.'

The book guides followers of Al Qaeda how to interrogate and torture captives.

The drawings and cartoons depict ways to use electric drills and irons, meat cleavers and other devices to force victims to talk or harm them.

Some of the drawings show how to drill hands, sever limbs, drag victims behind cars, remove eyes, put a blowtorch or iron to someone’s skin, suspend a person from a ceiling and electrocute them, break limbs and restrict breath and put someone’s head in a vice.

Items found at the safe house include electric drills, hammers, blow torches, meat cleavers, pliers and wire cutters, chains, screw drivers, whips and handcuffs.

Earlier this week U.S. troops found the information near Baghdad, along with five Iraqis being held.

Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters Thursday that Al Qaeda poses a dangerous threat to the United States for years to come.

"Clearly, whatever military advice we give, both in Iraq and regionally, must take into account that this group — of Al Qaeda — has targeted free nations, to include the United States, and how our long-term plan and our long-term recommendations must deal with that very real threat to the United States," Pace said at a Pentagon briefing.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the United States continues to direct most efforts to defeating Al Qaeda, but he predicted insurgents in Iraq will ramp up attacks this summer

"I think the worry that we have is clearly what we have seen over the past year: that whatever progress is made — and particularly in the last few months — often is overshadowed when Al Qaeda will launch a major attack that kills a lot of innocent civilian Iraqis," Gates said.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Terrorist do alot of stuff we dont dont want to do, that why we say they are bad and evil and we are not.

If you want to take the moral road, you can't be toruing people, its just that simple.

America is better then that, or at least should be.

Its not effective, Most CIA and Military will tell you that all you get is what you want to hear.

you lump them all as if they are the same. Making a guy stand up for a long time is a far cry from making him think you are killing him.

How well do you think it would work in the middle east if they where running around with info that we where doing the stuff al Qaeda does, to Muslims? Not a real good hearts and minds way to get them on our side, or at least prevent them from joining al qaeda

that little thing called the Geneva Convention, and the US Constitution.
So unless you think that anyone in the world who is not in the military of a nation, is just fair game to do what you want to , no trial , no nothing....

 

[The Scotsman]

I assume that these are what the US already does...I'll qualify that! I assume that this is the purpose of the CIA rendition flights whereby suspects were taken to 3rd party countries where the CIA could undertake their "investigations"?

Some of the drawings show how to drill hands, sever limbs, drag victims behind cars, remove eyes, put a blowtorch or iron to someone’s skin, suspend a person from a ceiling and electrocute them, break limbs and restrict breath and put someone’s head in a vice.

Items found at the safe house include electric drills, hammers, blow torches, meat cleavers, pliers and wire cutters, chains, screw drivers, whips and handcuffs.

.....what useful information would this illicite do you think?

In Northern Ireland we always found the best information was obtained from those that don't know they are being listened to!

 

[pocketfullofshells]

I assume that these are what the US already does...I'll qualify that! I assume that this is the purpose of the CIA rendition flights whereby suspects were taken to 3rd party countries where the CIA could undertake their "investigations"?




.....what useful information would this illicite do you think?

In Northern Ireland we always found the best information was obtained from those that don't know they are being listened to!

true the torture was saved for those who where found to be British Spies working inside Sinn Fein...and they the dude was not smart enough to run away, but rather lived still in Ireland still.

I always suggest not screwing with the IRA.

 

[SW85]

It is a non-issue.

If the record is accurate, US agents used it maybe a whopping three times -- the last time being three or four years ago.

Again, non-issue.

 

[The Scotsman]

I always suggest not screwing with the IRA.

yeah

 

[Libsmasher]

Terrorist do alot of stuff we dont dont want to do, that why we say they are bad and evil and we are not.

If you want to take the moral road, you can't be toruing people, its just that simple.

America is better then that, or at least should be.

Notice how liberals, who have assured us there is no such thing as "morality" and that people shouldn't be judgemental and that the government shouldn't prescribe morality when it comes to domestic politics, suddenly start yammering about "evil" when it comes to the government's dealings with islamofascist trash.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Notice how liberals, who have assured us there is no such thing as "morality" and that people shouldn't be judgemental and that the government shouldn't prescribe morality when it comes to domestic politics, suddenly start yammering about "evil" when it comes to the government's dealings with islamofascist trash.

realy I said there is no Morality?

Cough COugh STRAW MAN Cough Cough

 

[Federal Farmer]

Here are the examples of the most common methods used by CIA: <snip specifics>

Been through all of that, and a lot worse during survival school (the predecessor of today's SEER School), so if that's the worst they're doing, believe me, we're not even being "rude" to them.

 

[Libsmasher]

realy I said there is no Morality?

Cough COugh STRAW MAN Cough Cough

Ewwwwwwwwww - you are a rare lib - bring a TYPICAL lib into the thread!

 

[Pandora]

If someone tried to hurt my daughter or threatened to hurt her. I would literally tear their eyes out of their face to protect her. Killing them violently if need be to keep her safe, and so would most parents.

Why do we expect so much more restraint from our soldiers, when they have been attacked, seen their friends attacked and killed and especially if they knew their friends or family were in danger of attack. I would do what ever it took to get the information to safe my friend or family member, but we expect something different from others than we would do ourselves.

I have never been in war so I really don’t know all particulars, but I know what I would be willing to do to protect someone I love. I certainly would not think less of a solider who did what ever they had to do to protect their brothers in arms.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

If someone tried to hurt my daughter or threatened to hurt her. I would literally tear their eyes out of their face to protect her. Killing them violently if need be to keep her safe, and so would most parents.

Why do we expect so much more restraint from our soldiers, when they have been attacked, seen their friends attacked and killed and especially if they knew their friends or family were in danger of attack. I would do what ever it took to get the information to safe my friend or family member, but we expect something different from others than we would do ourselves.

I have never been in war so I really don’t know all particulars, but I know what I would be willing to do to protect someone I love. I certainly would not think less of a solider who did what ever they had to do to protect their brothers in arms.

because we train them to have restraint? If you cant control your troops, you can't control anything. You think the Insurgency is bad in Iraq now? Just picture it with US troops going on Revenge missions of torture at will.

And you say you would do what ever it took to get info...and what makes you think anything they say is valid at all? Do Enough to anyone, and they will admit to anything. I am 100% I could get you , if I used all means, to confess to killing someone. Would it mean you did ? nope, but I can tell you now, you could be made to say it.

And if you want to help your Brother in Arms, you are much better keeping a cool head and not just lashing out. That's why we train them to do that.