And, If You Do It Again, We're Going To Hold Our Breath Until We Turn Blue !!!

GBFan

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The Obama administration has accused Russia of violating a 1987 nuclear missile treaty by testing a ground-launched cruise missile and says the U.S. is prepared for immediate high-level dialogue with Moscow over the matter.

An administration official told Fox News in a statement that the violation "is a very serious matter which we have attempted to address with Russia for some time now." The New York Times first reported the accusation.

President Obama informed Russian President Vladimir Putin in a letter Monday of the U.S.' determination that Russia broke the agreement. The official said the U.S. is prepared to engage in "senior-level bilateral dialogue immediately" with Russia with the goal of assuring Washington that Moscow will return to compliance with the treaty.

"The United States is committed to the viability of the I.N.F. Treaty," the official said. "We encourage Russia to return to compliance with its obligations under the Treaty and to eliminate any prohibited items in a verifiable manner."

According to the Times, Russia started testing the missiles as early as 2008, and the Obama administration flagged them as a possible violation at the end of 2011.

Russian officials have said they looked into the allegations and consider the matter closed.
 
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Putin is flexing muscle and rattling sabers in more than one way. The situation in the Ukrane, the downing of a passenger plane, and now this comes to light.

Just what do you think our response should be?
 
That may be so.

What should he do about Putin's Russia?
About all he could do is huddle with europe and agree to a line that cannot be crossed (and mean it which is not his long suit) and communicate it. Put all euro leaders on a dais with him to do it. No Kerry, cant have that idiot mucking it up.

Hopefully that line coincides with ehat vlad in thinking and that puts it on ice till he's retired.

And just so we're clear, the 'or else' aint sanctions. It would be good to detonate putin's dacha or something in moscow (empty of people and very visable) to make a point.
 
About all he could do is huddle with europe and agree to a line that cannot be crossed (and mean it which is not his long suit) and communicate it. Put all euro leaders on a dais with him to do it. No Kerry, cant have that idiot mucking it up.

Hopefully that line coincides with ehat vlad in thinking and that puts it on ice till he's retired.

And just so we're clear, the 'or else' aint sanctions. It would be good to detonate putin's dacha or something in moscow (empty of people and very visable) to make a point.
If the "or else" isn't sanctions, then what? Are we to declare war on Russia?
 
If the "or else" isn't sanctions, then what? Are we to declare war on Russia?
It will have to be clear that further action on putin's part will be viewed as an act of war. Start setting up missile shields in eastern europe genetally rattle sabres. Thats why accord with europe is critical, at what line will they commit to conflict ?
 
It will have to be clear that further action on putin's part will be viewed as an act of war. Start setting up missile shields in eastern europe genetally rattle sabres. Thats why accord with europe is critical, at what line will they commit to conflict ?
Perhaps if Russia were to invade one of the Western European countries, they would commit to conflict. Maybe.

The Europeans realize, as does Putin and, hopefully, our own dysfunctional government, that a real shooting war with Russia would kill millions of people and destroy a large part of Europe and North America.

That's why economic sanctions is a better plan. Keep escalating economic warfare until it gets costly enough to make Russia back off.

Modern wars between powerful nations in the 21st. century are economic, not military.
 
You know, I'm reminded of some history ....

In 1935, the League of Nations imposed sanctions on Italy for its invasion of Ethiopia. Italy had a goal of combining the areas of influence in Africa into a single entity.

Haile Selassie, then the emperor of Ethiopia, addressed the League assembly, asking for military intervention. He ended his speech with a simple statement, "Today, it is us. Tomorrow, it will be you." The League of Nation refused military assistance to Ethiopia.

Of course, if we remember, Italy attacked British troops in Egypt in 1940 ... so, apparently, "tomorrow, it [was] you."

In 1939, Neville Chamberlain met with Adolph Hitler in Munich, Germany. In return for "peace in our time", Chamberlain agreed to allow Germany to annex half of Czechoslovakia. Czechoslovakia did not have input into the decision. Chamberlain assured all who would listen that this agreement would ensured that World War II had been averted, and we would have world "peace in our time."

Of course, as we now know, it slowed the German advance .... for whole 8 days. Eight days later, Germany invaded Poland, and WWII was on.

------------------------------

So, I wonder ... what is different today? Are our tyrants smarter? Do they now know they can't win? Why should we, today, expect Putin to stop? Did he learn from history?

Or ... did we NOT learn that appeasement never works?
 
Perhaps if Russia were to invade one of the Western European countries, they would commit to conflict. Maybe.

The Europeans realize, as does Putin and, hopefully, our own dysfunctional government, that a real shooting war with Russia would kill millions of people and destroy a large part of Europe and North America.

That's why economic sanctions is a better plan. Keep escalating economic warfare until it gets costly enough to make Russia back off.

Modern wars between powerful nations in the 21st. century are economic, not military.


Economic sanctions have little or no effect ... they affect the availability of food and energy to the masses, but those in charge suffer nothing. Of course, over a long period of time, the people will rebel (but, let's keep in mind that this a citizenry that has suffered deprivation for 50 years), but, by then, the dictator/tyrant will have accomplished his goals.

Economic sanctions are a placebo for us ... not a poison pill for them.
 
Perhaps if Russia were to invade one of the Western European countries, they would commit to conflict. Maybe.

The Europeans realize, as does Putin and, hopefully, our own dysfunctional government, that a real shooting war with Russia would kill millions of people and destroy a large part of Europe and North America.

That's why economic sanctions is a better plan. Keep escalating economic warfare until it gets costly enough to make Russia back off.

Modern wars between powerful nations in the 21st. century are economic, not military.
Or perhaps whats behind door #3.
Sanctions will not deter. WWII aint coming back.
This is more like a karate match between grandmasters. Over in 60 seconds or less. Kremlin turns to dust. Ballgame.
Can we do it ? We have capability far beyond what we've shown. Not to be wasted on arabs.
But it requires commitment. That may be more than BO is capable of or Merkel etal for that matter.
G9nna be interesting jext couple years.
 
Or perhaps whats behind door #3.
Sanctions will not deter. WWII aint coming back.
This is more like a karate match between grandmasters. Over in 60 seconds or less. Kremlin turns to dust. Ballgame.
Can we do it ? We have capability far beyond what we've shown. Not to be wasted on arabs.
But it requires commitment. That may be more than BO is capable of or Merkel etal for that matter.
G9nna be interesting jext couple years.

Yes, it is.

And right now, I don't see any good outcomes for the USA in Russia, in Iraq, in Iran, pretty much anywhere.
 
Yes, it is.

And right now, I don't see any good outcomes for the USA in Russia, in Iraq, in Iran, pretty much anywhere.

In order to ensure a successful result of a particular situation, you must take control of that situation. Then, and only then, can you dictate the result.

Leadership 101 - unfortunately, our President never read it.
 
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In order to ensure a successful result of a particular situation, you must take control of that situation. Then, and only then, can you dictate the result.

Leadership 101 - unfortunately, our President never read it.
Unfortunately, I'm afraid you're correct.
 
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