Apocalypse now?' What Europe's media thought of the Trump speech

[Openmind]

and just means you have to borrow more to fund them bit like Greece.
yup. The more they pay me the quicker I spend it

That's because you are still in the "meeting my need" category! And this reinforce what I am saying: If you provide additional money (let's say, through reducing taxes) to the lower or middle income, that money will be SPENT immediately, and the velocity of that money will be HIGH. If you give tax breaks to the wealthy, that money will be saved or spent all over the world. . .not at the Lowes' or Home Depots to buy a new fridge, or at Ford garage to buy a new small car. . .but rather at Cartier to buy a new diamond, or at Mercedes to buy a new FOREIGN car!

It is obvious that, if you give $1,000 tax break to a lower income person, he/she might use it immediately as a down payment (let's say) on a new car. . .not a Mercedes, but a small ford or such. If you give that to 100 lower income people. . .that may translate in 100 more small cars, build in the USA. Now, give $100,000 tax break to a guy in the top 1%, and he MAY use it to buy a car also. . .maybe a German Mercedes, maybe a Ferrari, maybe even a small yacht (built in Italy, of course!)

And. .it takes A LOT MORE labor to build 100 small ford than it does to build 1 mercedes (even if it was build in the US). So, that ONE big item ticket doesn't provide as much labor/work for people in America than the multiple smaller item tickets!

The wealthy, those who are just hoarding money, do not "spend" but a small fraction of their wealth. And what they spend, is more often spend ABROAD (why not, so much more fun to take the private jet and fly to Paris to shop, rather than the train to NY City!, or take a world cruise and spread money around, rather than go to the beach at home or take the kids to Disneyland!).

Yes, they also INVEST. . .but they no longer invest INSIDE America. . .they invest abroad! They are buying castles in France, golf courses in Scotland, and set up manufacturing in Taiwan or the Philippines! Yes, they still buy stock. . .but the stock market no longer reflect the health of an industry. . .it is only a reflection of the health of investment. . .for the good of investment, for dividends, not to provide jobs to American workers! In fact, stocks usually go UP when corporations lay off large number of workers!

Sick!

 

[The Scotsman]

four times those given to renewable energy."

There's a wind farm near us at Romney Marsh that cost something like £50 million and has something like 25 turbines? I read last week that it managed to generate enough electricity to boil 40 kettles.

 

[Openmind]

There's a wind farm near us at Romney Marsh that cost something like £50 million and has something like 25 turbines? I read last week that it managed to generate enough electricty to boil 40 kettles.

Funny how you never provide your sources. But this is an old Right wing trick: Just say "I was told," or "I read somewhere," and no one will question you. .

Here is my source:

The output of a wind turbine depends on the turbine's size and the wind's speed through the rotor. An average onshore wind turbine with a capacity of 2.5–3 MW can produce more than 6 million kWh in a year – enough to supply 1,500 average EU households with electricity.
Wind energy frequently asked questions (FAQ) | EWEA
www.ewea.org/wind-energy-basics/faq/

And, by the way, wind turbine technology is still at a state of infancy, and I never said it had reached its peak efficiency. But it certainly is worth putting some investment in research to IMPROVE their efficiency, rather than just scrap the whole thing!

Clean energy is getting only a fraction of subsidies compared to the dying fossil fuel industry! NOT SMART!

 

[The Scotsman]

Funny how you never provide your sources.

Daily Telegraph some time ago - looking out my window at the lack of wind

 

[The Scotsman]

Clean energy is getting only a fraction of subsidies compared to the dying fossil fuel industry! NOT SMART!

I agree they should explore it more but for the UK we don't have much sun and the wind is erratic so we have a bit of a problem.
I prefer nukes but theres all this problem with the crap left after they wear out but I'm sure if we spent money on that we could come up with a solution.

 

[Openmind]

I agree they should explore it more but for the UK we don't have much sun and the wind is erratic so we have a bit of a problem.
I prefer nukes but theres all this problem with the crap left after they wear out but I'm sure if we spent money on that we could come up with a solution.

You remind me of the guy who says that climate change is not real because there is an inch of snow in his driveway!

You might be interested in reading this article:

Wind Energy - Wind Measurement International
www.windmeasurementinternational.com/wind-info/wind-energy_faq.php

"We are lucky here in the UK to have excellent winds both on and offshore. Our first offshore turbines at Blyth began producing electricity in December 2000. More offshore wind farms are now dotted in locations around the coast, and more are being erected or in planning stages at the moment. Visit our Offshore section in the clients tab for more information on offshore wind farms in UK waters."

 

[The Scotsman]

You might be interested in reading this article:

yeah there's loads of stuff like that, and stuff like this

John Constable, director of Renewable Energy Foundation, a think tank which has been critical of wind farms, said: “Professional analysts have long known that fluctuating wind turbine output is poorly correlated with demand, but RWE’s new website is a very valuable addition to the data available to the general public, and will encourage informed debate about the relative potential for different renewable technologies.
"The truth will be painful for some, but the facts have to be faced sooner or later.”
Dr Constable added: “The uncontrollably variable output of wind power already imposes significant grid and system management costs on the consumer, costs which are set to grow dramatically; we need to ask ourselves whether the EU renewables targets for 2020 are really affordable.”

Love the internet you become an overnight expert on stuff.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

But don't you think that for a "superpower" that concept would be of strategic importance? I'm sure you recall the situation in 1973 would it not be desirable to have the ability to stand up to that sort of extortion/embargo?

Problem is we are not "standing up" to anyone. We currently have a glut of oil, the sales of electric autos is rapidly increasing as the technology improves, and yet we continue to buy from the Saudis who were the ones responsible for 911, and still finance terrorism. The pipelines being built, both the Keystone, and the Dallas Access, are not being built for American consumption, they are being built for sale on the global market. The situation in 1073 was not caused by an American glut, and I remember how cargo ships full of oil were setting offshore, and how all of the storage facilities were full, and gas carriers were caught dumping gasoline in the desert. Back in the 50's, and 60's, there were far more refineries then there are today. Then the "Big 5" began buying up the smaller refineries, and then buying off Congress to get laws past to prevent other refineries from being built.

We could be "energy independent" if not for the farce presented by big oil, if we were to expand the use of natural gas, and end the "war" on alternative vehicles.

 

[Old_Trapper70]

yeah there's loads of stuff like that, and stuff like this

Love the internet you become an overnight expert on stuff.

Not an expert, but you do become better informed. If wind were the only alternative your quote might have some basis, however, there is tide power which is being developed, solar energy which is constantly being improved, recycling of water to conserve the aquifers, the improvement of battery capacity (see Tesla's new home battery), and the list goes on. Nothing is static, it is constantly changing, and improving. Science fiction becomes reality.

 

[Openmind]

yeah there's loads of stuff like that, and stuff like this

Love the internet you become an overnight expert on stuff.

Yes. . .isn't that great!

And. . .as I said, the wind turbine technology is in its infancy and needs a lot more research to get to maximum efficiency. But It seems that the fossil energy has already proven the huge negatives, including the need to steal land from Native Americans and threaten the water system! By the way, blackouts in America happen every year due to winter storm. . .and combinations of sources of energy to deal with the current problems of up and down production by wind turbines can be a good transitional solution until more problems are solved.

 

[The Scotsman]

if we were to expand the use of natural gas, and end the "war" on alternative vehicles.

Yeah I take your point about the Saudis they are an odious bunch of people but unfortuately their country floats on oil and since you guys like us like our cars we just have to smile and take their fuel its not the only source of light sweet though.
I think you're right about gas though, its certainly cleaner than coal and I guess better than oil in terms of all the infrastructure required to process the stuff. Disregarding the consumption of beans is the US gas rich? The UK has a reasonable amount offshore but I think we are still importing quite a bit for electrical generation. We don't have many gas powered vehicles either.

 

[The Scotsman]

including the need to steal land from Native Americans and threaten the water system!

Now that is an issue and I agree on that.

 

[The Scotsman]

there is tide power which is being developed, solar energy which is constantly being improved,

If you have sun like in California or Nevada for example then you can achieve considerable output with arrays that compared to the size of the state are negligible - unfortunately we don't have that luxury, we don't get that much sunlight even in summer. Tidal power is something that is being experimented with on the Severn Estuary (in Wales) but the cost is colossal and the potential cost of the per Kw output would be uneconomic - and the project would damage the environment!! Wind power is erratic.

 

[dogtowner]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...et-25-times-the-subsidy-that-fossil-fuels-do/

For wind the subsides represent 40% of the cost per kwatthr or about 1% of what wind gets given .60 cents a barrel on oil.

 

[Openmind]

If you have sun like in California or Nevada for example then you can achieve considerable output with arrays that compared to the size of the state are negligible - unfortunately we don't have that luxury, we don't get that much sunlight even in summer. Tidal power is something that is being experimented with on the Severn Estuary (in Wales) but the cost is colossal and the potential cost of the per Kw output would be uneconomic - and the project would damage the environment!! Wind power is erratic.

All forms of energy sources are erratic, in the sense that they are always dependent on nature, and that they all affect nature and the environment. But some of them present more dangers than others. And in that category, fossil energy is the worst (look at fracking, pipelines, Oil rigs, coal mines). Atomic energy may actually be the most stable. . . unless an incident happens, and then they are the consequences might be the most deadly and longer lasting.

I guess, to satisfy every concern, we should learn to decrease our energy needs, rather than increase it.