Can you support out troops and still be against the war?

[USMC the Almighty]

I didnt know a jarhead could think,let alone type.

Now,I can say that because I am a retired FMF corpsman,last assigned with the 15th MEU in Nassiriyah Iraq.

As for supporting the troops,ANYTHING that gives our enemies hop,be it calling for our withdrawal,a timetable,or anything that can let the enemy think we are weak is NOT supporting me or my comrades.

You dont need to send me letters and "care packages",but dont say anything against me or my brothers either.
The enemy hears everything the anti-war crowd is saying,and they will use it as a weapon.

Glad to have you on board. SEMPER FI, Marine. As for your analysis -- spot on.

 

[mysteryman]

SEMPER FI Marine.
I was wounded in Nassiriyah during the invasion of Iraq,and the Navy decided they didnt need my services anymore.
I retired as a first Class petty officer (E-6) after almost 20 years of keeping Marines alive.

If they call me,I will go back tomorrow.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

I have only good things to say about the fleet Marine force. Thank you for your service, Doc.

 

[Vitiate]

Are they still a threat? No, Nazism, Communism, and Fascism are no longer threats. They have been minimized -- marginalized to the point of insignificance. We should strive to do the same with the 21st century ideology of terrorism.

North Korea isn't a threat? According to our intelligence it is. Putin, if I'm not mistaken is fascist and Hugo Chavez is purportedly fascist as well. You cannot destroy ideologies. It's completey illogical.

Which brings me to another question. Does Fundamental Islam allow for Democracy? Apparently it doesn't, yet we're still fighting a huge population that is fundamentalist. Furthermore, what use is democracy if there is no middle class, a very tiny power elite (US implants), and a large population of the poor who'll vote for anything because they lack the education to understand what democracy is.

In any case, I see this whole 'do you support the troops, but not the war' as completely asinine. This isn't some sort of dichotomy. This is just like me saying that I can't support the well-being of a habitual drug user because they do drugs. Everyone wants to see that their soldiers in arms are safe.

 

[Vitiate]

I didnt know a jarhead could think,let alone type.

Now,I can say that because I am a retired FMF corpsman,last assigned with the 15th MEU in Nassiriyah Iraq.

As for supporting the troops,ANYTHING that gives our enemies hop,be it calling for our withdrawal,a timetable,or anything that can let the enemy think we are weak is NOT supporting me or my comrades.

You dont need to send me letters and "care packages",but dont say anything against me or my brothers either.
The enemy hears everything the anti-war crowd is saying,and they will use it as a weapon.

They know we're weak, otherwise they would have surrendered at the onset of invasion. I credit your time in service, but I disagree with your statements.

 

[USMC the Almighty]

North Korea isn't a threat? According to our intelligence it is. Putin, if I'm not mistaken is fascist and Hugo Chavez is purportedly fascist as well. You cannot destroy ideologies. It's completey illogical.

Fair enough -- some would consider N. Korea a threat, but in my eyes, the terrorists of the Middle East pose a much larger threat. Putin is not a fascist, and neither is Chavez.

Have we not successfully destroyed Nazism?

Which brings me to another question. Does Fundamental Islam allow for Democracy? Apparently it doesn't, yet we're still fighting a huge population that is fundamentalist. Furthermore, what use is democracy if there is no middle class, a very tiny power elite (US implants), and a large population of the poor who'll vote for anything because they lack the education to understand what democracy is.

That's exactly what the Redeemers would say about balcks and the 14th/15th Amendments during American Reconstruction. Democracies aren't built in a day.

Everyone wants to see that their soldiers in arms are safe.

But the question is whether you want them to be successful in their mission.

 

[Sgt Schultz]

But the question is whether you want them to be successful in their mission.

Want and belief that it is possible are two different things.

 

[dls]

I didnt know a jarhead could think,let alone type.

Now,I can say that because I am a retired FMF corpsman,last assigned with the 15th MEU in Nassiriyah Iraq.

As for supporting the troops,ANYTHING that gives our enemies hop,be it calling for our withdrawal,a timetable,or anything that can let the enemy think we are weak is NOT supporting me or my comrades.

You don't need to send me letters and "care packages",but don't say anything against me or my brothers either.
The enemy hears everything the anti-war crowd is saying,and they will use it as a weapon.

There are a lot of us who totally disagree with the traitorous actions taking place in congress and the senate for that matter.
I firmly believe that you can't have your cake and eat it too. And that's all our politicians try for.
In answer to the topic NO you can't support the troops and talk crap about the mission.

 

[vyo476]

There are a lot of us who totally disagree with the traitorous actions taking place in congress and the senate for that matter.

Just thought I'd let you know - the Senate is part of Congress.

I firmly believe that you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I'm curious - do you believe this is true in all situations?

And that's all our politicians try for.

Nah, they spend a lot of time naming stuff too.

In answer to the topic NO you can't support the troops and talk crap about the mission.

Here we agree. For the most part. If someone makes a truly compelling argument I'm still willing to listen.

 

[vyo476]

North Korea isn't a threat? According to our intelligence it is. Putin, if I'm not mistaken is fascist and Hugo Chavez is purportedly fascist as well. You cannot destroy ideologies. It's completey illogical.

North Korea would be dangerous if someone gave them the means to be, but even the Chinese think they're crazy so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Putin is a communist wannabe and Chavez is a communist - in a country that doesn't pose much of a threat. The latter two are mostly windbags without much shot at accomplishing any of their potentially anti-US goals.

Which brings me to another question. Does Fundamental Islam allow for Democracy? Apparently it doesn't, yet we're still fighting a huge population that is fundamentalist.

These guys might disagree with you: http://www.csidonline.org/

Furthermore, what use is democracy if there is no middle class, a very tiny power elite (US implants), and a large population of the poor who'll vote for anything because they lack the education to understand what democracy is.

Wow. Tell me, what do you know of the American Revolution? The American middle class was tiny during and directly after the Revolution - confined to artisans and shopowners in the cities. Besides that there were the wealthy merchants and the overwhelming majority, the poor, uneducated farmers.

In any case, I see this whole 'do you support the troops, but not the war' as completely asinine. This isn't some sort of dichotomy. This is just like me saying that I can't support the well-being of a habitual drug user because they do drugs. Everyone wants to see that their soldiers in arms are safe.

Be realistic. If all we were hung up on was their safety they wouldn't be "soldiers," would they? The question is whether the mission is worth the sacrifice, and saying it isn't is demeaning to those who believed it was and gave their lives for it, and also gives a morale boost to the people who continue to kill our troops as they near completion of their goal - driving us out of Iraq.

While I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the majority of the Iraqi people wanted us gone these days, I would be surprised if the majority of the Iraqi people want the people currently responsible for murdering civilians and our troops to take over once we're gone. Your thoughts?

 

[Vitiate]

Fair enough -- some would consider N. Korea a threat, but in my eyes, the terrorists of the Middle East pose a much larger threat. Putin is not a fascist, and neither is Chavez.

Have we not successfully destroyed Nazism?

I wouldn't say we've successfully destroyed it. Some extremely conservative individuals still carry the ideology of nazism, though they don't refer to it as nazism, and they are usually more centralized in the South.

That's exactly what the Redeemers would say about balcks and the 14th/15th Amendments during American Reconstruction. Democracies aren't built in a day.

I can only hope you're right.

But the question is whether you want them to be successful in their mission.

Yes, everyone wants to see their team be successful, but it doesn't always work out that way. Does it mean I can't be behind my troops? Not necessarily.

 

[Vitiate]

North Korea would be dangerous if someone gave them the means to be, but even the Chinese think they're crazy so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Putin is a communist wannabe and Chavez is a communist - in a country that doesn't pose much of a threat. The latter two are mostly windbags without much shot at accomplishing any of their potentially anti-US goals.

North Korea is dangerous. Having missile capabilities that are trans-pacific is not dangerous? China is the counterweight between the US and North Korea. China has economic ties with both the US and North Korea. Any disturbance with China could tip the scales in one direction and hurt the other.

Fine, they're communists, but they are still fascists. Putin slams oligarchies and his government kills those that speak out. His government has killed numerous journalists for investigating his government.
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/10/08/europe/EU_GEN_Russia_Journalist_Killed_Glance.php
As for Hugo, he takes after his homie Putin, trying to manipulate the government and destroy the articles of their country so that he can remain in power.

Underestimation of any country is the worst thing you can do because it leads us into a quagmire.

These guys might disagree with you: http://www.csidonline.org/

I read some of their stuff. They seem to be moving Sharia Law to a more progressive stance, which is what they want. They're loosening it up so to speak.

Wow. Tell me, what do you know of the American Revolution? The American middle class was tiny during and directly after the Revolution - confined to artisans and shopowners in the cities. Besides that there were the wealthy merchants and the overwhelming majority, the poor, uneducated farmers.

A lot has changed in roughly 300 years. The zeitgeist was completely different and the conditions don't even pale in comparison to those in Iraq. We had a set of founding fathers, generals and scholars. Iraq doesn't have that. They have no one to relate to. They have no heroes.

Be realistic. If all we were hung up on was their safety they wouldn't be "soldiers," would they? The question is whether the mission is worth the sacrifice, and saying it isn't is demeaning to those who believed it was and gave their lives for it, and also gives a morale boost to the people who continue to kill our troops as they near completion of their goal - driving us out of Iraq.

I am being realistic. I do support the troops because I care for my fellow man. Therefore I can say that the mission is not worth their sacrifice. I feel that they are dragged into something that may never end. Does it stop my support for them? No, not at all. If they can get the job done, that's fantastic, but I don't have to support the American oligarchy vision of what it wants in the middle east - which of course is superimposed onto my countrymen who are fighting over there. Supporting issues blindly is not what democracy is all about, and as a civilian, it is my duty to question the visions of our government even during wartime.

While I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the majority of the Iraqi people wanted us gone these days, I would be surprised if the majority of the Iraqi people want the people currently responsible for murdering civilians and our troops to take over once we're gone. Your thoughts?

Such a paradox right?

 

[braecampion]

war/troops

I think its almost impossible to completely support the troops when you don't support the reason they are over there. They are fighting for a specific reason/cause and if you don't believe in that reason/cause how can you back the troops, its hypocracy at the smallest level. But if you can do it, more power to you.

 

[michaelr]

I voted yes. I want the troops home, I believe that it is naive to think that this war is just. I was against it from before it started. I am also against us going into Iran, I think that would be foolish. These countries never posed a threat to us, Israel, maybe. Thats their problem. I have 3 sons that and I persuaded them against joining the military to fight a war of aggression. At first they didn't understand, now they thank me.
I have a great fondness for the troops, they are the best of the best. Yet their suicide rates are at an all time high, divorce is also out of control. When they get home they find nothing but grief when dealing with the VA. Their jobs are gone, the gov turns their backs toward them. In my state, the veterans hospitals are a joke, it takes them months to get in, then if they are lucky they receive treatment. The state cannot afford to keep them open as the federal gov cut payments.
I have taken part in protesting this war, and will continue to do so. I have the greatest respect for the troops and only want the best for them. Ask this administration why they have let them down, and when do they plan to give them the support that they deserve.

 

[OPGhostdog]

I am Totally Supporting Our Troops To Come Home.

Michaelr....Right on with your post. I totally agree with everything
you said. There is a big differences between reading about a War,
and actually fighting in a War.

As a ex-service man I am going to speak from experience, and NOT
from something I learned while watching Chuck Norris or Harrison
Ford. Everyday Most Americans is always posting that they support
our troops, but seem to think that they should stay in Iraq until......
What they die?

In the Middle East our Men & Women is catching pure hell from the
heat. I can understand them having mix emotions towards our gov,
and most is homesick for home. Yet they are keeping the courage
to hang in there regardless, and over here we have people who do
not seem to have the solution to bring them home.

Three more of our troops was killed yesterday, and yet Bush is
planning on sending another 20,000 over to the Middle East.
I am wondering what kind of deal did Bush cut with the Saudia
Royal Family?

In Closing.....BRING OUR TROOPS HOME IN ONE PIECE.