Cash for Clunkers... a lesson in economics.

[always]

We learned Obama folks will lie about an ill-conceived, ineffective and
very wasteful program they implemented.

We also learned that Obama and demorats will misrepresent the facts and lie about any
program they have their hands in. They knew the facts and decided to report fiction instead, so they could pat themselves on the back.

It was a bad program from the start, in the middle and now afterwards.

Obama is destroying American prosperity one clunker at a time!

It's called CHANGE!

Yes, Obama lies about EVERYTHING because he is a walking , talking lie.A lie is his soul, his heart, his mind, indeed a lie is his GOD. Looking back , his entire political past is a lie. Even his true birthplace is a mystery yet unsolved. He thrives on lies, lies are his source of life. He cannot speak, save a few stuttering grunts, without a "prompter" giving him not just his own lies but allows him to spew forth the lies of his liemasters as if they were his own.Shame, the most powerful nation in the world , destroyed in ten months ,
by a liar.Seems unnatural does it not?

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Yes, Obama lies about EVERYTHING because he is a walking , talking lie.A lie is his soul, his heart, his mind, indeed a lie is his GOD. Looking back , his entire political past is a lie. Even his true birthplace is a mystery yet unsolved. He thrives on lies, lies are his source of life. He cannot speak, save a few stuttering grunts, without a "prompter" giving him not just his own lies but allows him to spew forth the lies of his liemasters as if they were his own.Shame, the most powerful nation in the world , destroyed in ten months ,
by a liar.Seems unnatural does it not?

**WARNING** MENTAL MALFUNCTION - BRAIN IS FLAT LINE______ PLEASE, PULL THE PLUG

Listening to the 'slum crawlers' like your ILK speaking about the 'TRUTH FACTOR' from our President is...well it is the CLASSIC: "Pot Calling the Kettle BLACK"

Who better to know about "spew forth the lies of his lie-masters" then the proven QUEEN of the LIE-MASTERS...GOOD GRIEF YOU ARE A MORON!!!

 

[Andy]

Naive though you try to sound...you know exactly what my POINT was...and ignore it while you are able...it wasn't just 'LIBERALs' that got that stimulus plan of 'CASH FOR CLUNKERS' pushed through. Hmm...how many states profited from those JOBS that this plan enabled to provide for the auto industry to keep their manufacturing plants open and operational???

Sure it 'ALWAYS' easy to become the constant naysayer/whiner about the problems...but it's taking both sides of this political issue to get something/anything working. So blame away as you seem fit and ignore the TRUTH about the people behind the attempts to create change

We've been over this. The answer is zero jobs were saved.

As stated before, only 125K cars were unplanned purchases, and sales have fallen through the floor since the plan ended.

So how many is 125K cars?
By September of 2008, there were 10.8 Million light vehicle sales.
By September of this year, there are only 7.8 Million light vehicle sales.
Only 125K of those 7.8 Million light vehicle sales were unplanned purchases due to C4C program.

Now what impact do you really think 125 thousand vehicle purchases, mostly to auto manufactures that were not in trouble anyway, is going to have on a market that is down 3 Million sales?

Again... ZERO.... this isn't that hard.

Not to mention the fact that when you divide up the sales by the 5 major car companies, Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota and Honda, you end up with only 25K sales to each.

What impact is 25K sales going to have to GM which went from 2.4 Million sales in 2008, to 1.5 Million sales in 2009? Zero. So how many jobs were saved? Zero.

The only way 125K sales would have even a marginal impact is if they went to companies in distress. Of course that didn't happen. Most of the sales went to companies which were doing fine anyway. So how many jobs were saved by sales to car companies that were not cutting jobs to begin with? Zero.

Well yeah, but maybe those sales allowed those car companies to grow!

Nope. The car industry was down 3 million sales from this time last year. No car company is expanding when their sales are down in the middle of a recession.

The bottom line is, you are wrong, as always. There is zero evidence that many, if any jobs at all, were saved by this program. If you found even a dozen jobs that have been saved, especially after this massive sales downturn, I'd be surprised.

 

[Andy]

**WARNING** MENTAL MALFUNCTION - BRAIN IS FLAT LINE______ PLEASE, PULL THE PLUG

Listening to the 'slum crawlers' like your ILK speaking about the 'TRUTH FACTOR' from our President is...well it is the CLASSIC: "Pot Calling the Kettle BLACK"

Who better to know about "spew forth the lies of his lie-masters" then the proven QUEEN of the LIE-MASTERS...GOOD GRIEF YOU ARE A MORON!!!

This coming from someone who believes that 125K sales, in a market down 3 million in sales, is going to save the economy. Is this a moron calling someone else an idiot? Don't make me laugh ASPC. If you had half a brain cell still functioning, you wouldn't be looking at a train wreck of a policy, and talking about all the high quality spare parts you see.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

This coming from someone who believes that 125K sales, in a market down 3 million in sales, is going to save the economy. Is this a moron calling someone else an idiot? Don't make me laugh ASPC. If you had half a brain cell still functioning, you wouldn't be looking at a train wreck of a policy, and talking about all the high quality spare parts you see.

Gee ANDY, who got your wee little undies in a bunch...maybe you've out grown those G.I. JOE pull ups and need to grow the hell up to some big boy tighty-whiteys

You have your OPINION and I have mine...I have family that works at FORD...and well what the hell do we see...FORD POSTED A HUGE PROFIT...'F'n AMAZING and all you can do is sit on the side line and screech that MONKEY sound that you do sooooo well.

BTW...you hang with a real high I.Q. team there: ASUR, ALWAYS and that ILK...get a CLUE or GET A LIFE.

LMAO

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

Here...read this a let those 'SCREECHING MONKEYS' WAIL AWAY>>>
*****************************************
Ford Posts an Unexpected Profit of $997 Million By NICK BUNKLEY
Published: November 2, 2009
DETROIT — The Ford Motor Company posted a surprise third-quarter profit of $997 million on Monday and said that it had had its first profitable quarter in North America in more than four years.

Fabrizio Costantini for The New York Times
Shoppers look at a Mustang at a Ford dealership north of Detroit. Ford announced third-quarter earnings of nearly $1 billion, easily beating expectations.

Multimedia


Ford Chief Executive on Earnings (CNBC)
The carmaker also said that, at least temporarily, it had stopped rapidly depleting its cash reserves. It reported positive cash flow of $2.8 billion during the quarter, ending September with $23.8 billion.
Through the first nine months of 2009, Ford, the only Detroit automaker to avoid bankruptcy this year, has had a profit of more than $1.8 billion. Still, it has lost about $1.3 billion when one-time items, like a major debt restructuring, are excluded.
Until now, its goal had been to break even or earn a full-year profit by 2011. On Monday the company said in a statement that it “now expects to be solidly profitable in 2011, excluding special items, with positive operating-related cash flow.” It did not indicate whether a fourth-quarter or full-year profit is expected this year, nor did it provide an outlook for 2010, citing continued economic uncertainty.
“We’re just not sure, mainly about the strength of the recovery,” Ford’s chief executive, Alan R. Mulally, said on a conference call with analysts and reporters. “Clearly we’re on a path and following our plan for solid profitability in 2011.”
The company’s earnings of $357 million in North America broke a streak of 17 consecutive quarterly losses there. That figure represents a $3 billion improvement from the same period a year ago, despite considerably lower sales across the industry.
Ford was helped by the government’s so-called cash-for-clunkers program, which lifted new-vehicle sales in July and August, but executives attributed most of the upturn to cost cuts and higher net pricing.

<<for the rest of this story>>
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/business/03auto.html?_r=1&8au&emc=au
******************************
And if you have trouble reading this and comprehending the vocabulary/ mathmatical/accounting language POOR MISGUIDED ANDY, then find an adult and have them READ IT TO YOU I'll look around for a 3rd grade equvelant reading material with a coloring book and bar charts included just so you can C O M P R E H E N D...T H E...C O M P L E X I T I E S...O F...
T H I S...E X T R E M E L Y...H A R D...T O P I C...T H A T...Y O U...O B V I O U S L Y...J U S T...D O N ' T...G E T

 

[Andy]

Gee ANDY, who got your wee little undies in a bunch...maybe you've out grown those G.I. JOE pull ups and need to grow the hell up to some big boy tighty-whiteys

You have your OPINION and I have mine...I have family that works at FORD...and well what the hell do we see...FORD POSTED A HUGE PROFIT...'F'n AMAZING and all you can do is sit on the side line and screech that MONKEY sound that you do sooooo well.

BTW...you hang with a real high I.Q. team there: ASUR, ALWAYS and that ILK...get a CLUE or GET A LIFE.

LMAO

So in your world, direct evidence that the C3C program failed to meet stated objectives, really is opinion? Why should any give a crap about what someone with that view, says about anything? Perhaps that's why no one listens to you.

BTW, for the ignorant... Ford knew it was going to post a profit. This is the most stupid claim you've made yet. Hello McFly.... Ford posted a $2.1 Billion dollar profit in JULY sparky. Now they post a $1 Billion dollar profit.

So... in the quarter BEFORE cash for clunkers they made $1.1 Billion dollars MORE then they did during C4C. Sitting here yelling like a dork about the 'huge profit' they made during C4C when they had a larger profit before, is really retarded.

If you can't come up with a decent point, stop trying. Your posts are getting more stupid as we go.

 

[Andy]

Ford was helped by the government’s so-called cash-for-clunkers program, which lifted new-vehicle sales in July and August, but executives attributed most of the upturn to cost cuts and higher net pricing.

Do you not read? Hello sparky... let's read that together.

BUT.... executives attributed *MOST* of the upturn to cost cuts and higher net profit.

Well no kidding...

Do you even know the numbers?

In August:

GM sold 245,550 light vehicles.
Ford sold 181,826 light vehicles.

Now ask yourself, if that tiny brain can handle it, how did Ford manage to make a profit, selling almost 100,000 vehicles LESS than GM? It's called cost cutting. Ford cut labor costs by renegotiating union contracts, as well as moving operations to lower costing areas.

Ford would have posted a profit even if C4C had never existed. How do I know? First, Ford openly said they'd turn a profit back in early 2008 due to it's cost cutting and union renegotiation. Second, because the math shows that the few sales that C4C created, is no where close to being $1 Billion for Ford. Of course this uses intelligence and logic to realize. I'm not holding out hope for you to figure this out.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

odd last I checked, Ford was trying to get its Unions to deal and take contracts closer to what GM and Crysler got after Chapt 11...and have not got them yet.....

so how about this better idea?

Ford got people to pay more for there cars?
if you have Fords with a sticker of 30,000 and sell for 2750
and GM Sells more with a sticker of 30,000 but sells for 21,000

again Ford makes more off fewer....and since Labor costs are not actuly lower....

and how do you sell that way? Better cars that people actuly wanted

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

odd last I checked, Ford was trying to get its Unions to deal and take contracts closer to what GM and Crysler got after Chapt 11...and have not got them yet.....

so how about this better idea?

Ford got people to pay more for there cars?
if you have Fords with a sticker of 30,000 and sell for 2750
and GM Sells more with a sticker of 30,000 but sells for 21,000

again Ford makes more off fewer....and since Labor costs are not actuly lower....

and how do you sell that way? Better cars that people actuly wanted

Give it up POCKET...if pathetic ANDY can't wail away and stomp his immature feet and lay all of the entire blame at the feet of our elected President...then it just isn't going to do any of us any good to argue or discuss the REALITIES of the balance sheets with this 'SELF INFLICTED STUPID RIGHT WING NUT JOB'

His hysteria is as much like a little child, he won't be able to hear us over his 'SCREAMING MONKEY FITS'

 

[AtheismIsReality]

I'm really glad economics became such a big deal AFTER Bush.

 

[ASPCA4EVER]

I'm really glad economics became such a big deal AFTER Bush.

ODD, really odd isn't it? Even G.W.B.'s very own state {packed full of RINO's} kept their collective orifices locked shut and didn't utter a whimper about 8 years of free-flow-spending

Where the HELL was the consternation/hysterical ranting/angst then...hmmm

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I'm really glad economics became such a big deal AFTER Bush.

You're (obviously) forgetting that The Idiot-Son was a History Major....which would explain his mastery of foreign-policy.​

 

[Andy]

odd last I checked, Ford was trying to get its Unions to deal and take contracts closer to what GM and Crysler got after Chapt 11...and have not got them yet.....

so how about this better idea?

So? Do you think this means the former claim isn't true? What evidence do you have that Ford had not renegotiated contracts prior to this?

Nov, 2007

Ford Motor and the United Auto Workers union completed a tentative deal on a contract yesterday, averting a strike and capping a watershed period of labor negotiations in Detroit.

So how about this accurate idea?

Ford got people to pay more for there cars?
if you have Fords with a sticker of 30,000 and sell for 2750
and GM Sells more with a sticker of 30,000 but sells for 21,000

again Ford makes more off fewer....and since Labor costs are not actuly lower....

and how do you sell that way? Better cars that people actuly wanted

Really? Let's read together, eh?

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25164914-36375,00.html

UNION workers at Ford Motor have agreed to sweeping cost-cutting changes in their labour contract, a development likely to renew pressure on Ford's struggling domestic competitors, General Motors and Chrysler, to secure similar concessions.

Workers at a Ford manufacturing plant. Picture: Bloomberg
Ford and the leadership of the United Automobile Workers union agreed last month to cutbacks on work rules and cost-of-living wage increases, as well as the replacement of up to half of Ford's cash obligation to a retiree health-care fund with the company's stock.

Interesting? So the Unions say they cut labor costs, Ford says they reduced labor costs, the news papers agree they cut labor costs...

But liberal idiots on the forum think it's something else.

Let's see... do I believe joe blow forum poster, who hasn't made a logical argument yet, or everyone else. This is a tough one....

 

[Andy]

You're (obviously) forgetting that The Idiot-Son was a History Major....which would explain his mastery of foreign-policy.​

You do not need to insult yourself on the forum. We already know Shaman. It's very obvious to anyone who reads your crap.