Did you see "Sixty Minutes" tonight?

PLC1

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I did. This story was the lead:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/28/60minutes/main3976928.shtml

(BTW, "insert link" doesn't work)


Ex-Terror Detainee Says U.S. Tortured Him

At the age of 19, Murat Kurnaz vanished into America's shadow prison system in the war on terror. He was from Germany, traveling in Pakistan, and was picked up three months after 9/11. But there seemed to be ample evidence that Kurnaz was an innocent man with no connection to terrorism. The FBI thought so, U.S. intelligence thought so, and German intelligence agreed. But once he was picked up, Kurnaz found himself in a prison system that required no evidence and answered to no one.

The story Kurnaz told 60 Minutes correspondent Scott Pelley is a rare look inside that clandestine system of justice, where the government's own secret files reveal that an innocent man lost his liberty, his dignity, his identity, and ultimately five years of his life.

If the phrase "a prison system that requires no evidence and answers to no one" doesn't raise the hackles on the back of your neck, then nothing will. The Russians had their gulag, and now, it seems, the US has its Gitmo.
 
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Libsmasher

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bewitched

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maybe the kid shouldn't have threatened to carry out the verses of the Koran and kill the interogators who were trying to see how innocent he was.
maybe the kid shouldn't have told the non-muslim prison guard that when he gets out he will kill him and all of his family because of his belief in Islam.
poor little innocent jihadists.
look at the 10000 plus terrorist attacks since 911 in the name of Islam
www.thereligionofpeace.com
 

Andy

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If the phrase "a prison system that requires no evidence and answers to no one" doesn't raise the hackles on the back of your neck, then nothing will.

Need more information. One reporter claiming this is not proof. I've caught the media in so many lies, I have little doubt this is another. The whole point of the that line is to get you to watch the news, and it worked. They have you hook line and sinker.
 

PLC1

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Need more information. One reporter claiming this is not proof. I've caught the media in so many lies, I have little doubt this is another. The whole point of the that line is to get you to watch the news, and it worked. They have you hook line and sinker.

If you think this guy is making it all up, try explaining why they kept him for three and a half years after the US Military had decided that he had been innocent all along, then imagine such a thing happening in a civilian prison.

Here's more on the same story:

In fact, that evidence, recently declassified and obtained by The Washington Post, shows that U.S. military intelligence and German law enforcement authorities had largely concluded there was no information that linked Kurnaz to al Qaeda, any other terrorist organization or terrorist activities.

In recently declassified portions of a January ruling, a federal judge criticized the military panel for ignoring the exculpatory information that dominates Kurnaz's file and for relying instead on a brief, unsupported memo filed shortly before Kurnaz's hearing by an unidentified government official.

Kurnaz has been detained at Guantanamo Bay since at least January 2002.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3868-2005Mar26.html
 

bewitched

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60 minutes kool-aid.
they make it look so official and professional.

people in Gitmo aren't there because they are innocent. but I betcha you can go to any prison in the US and ask the guys if they did it and 90% would claim innocence.
been to a prison boy?
 

9sublime

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And I'm sure bewitched, along with living with the Taliban, you've been to prison.

I'm sure plenty of innocent people have been caught up in Guantanamo because America panicked big time a while back and arrested anyone on the flimsiest evidence.
 

Cdajen

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There is simply no excuse for the actions described in this story. With the reports that have surfaced recently regarding abuse of US detainees, and the soldiers and MPs who have come forward with 1st hand accounts of such...this story does not strike me as untrue, or surprising. What does surprise me is the lengths that people will go in attempts to defend and justify what are clearly injustices.
 

Andy

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And I'm sure bewitched, along with living with the Taliban, you've been to prison.

I'm sure plenty of innocent people have been caught up in Guantanamo because America panicked big time a while back and arrested anyone on the flimsiest evidence.

Well several in my family were police officers, and they all say it's amazing how instantly abused and beaten and innocent everyone they bring into the jail is.

At any rate... perhaps you are right. Perhaps by some stretch there is one dude there that was in fact completely innocent. A: It will eventually come out, and the situation fixed. We live in one of the few nations on Earth where to the press is free. So if it is true... then it will become clear. B: One single oops, among thousands of locked up terrorists... is ok with me. The alternative option being that we just do not stop the terrorist, letting them kill millions more Americans, is a worse option.

Again, I still don't believe it yet. I'm currently reading "Off with their heads!" by Dick Morris, and it's shocking how much major media outlets can slant the news to whatever view they want. Having witnessed completely fabricated news stories myself, I just don't believe it.
 

PLC1

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Has anyone read An Innocent Man by John Grisham?

It's a true story, and quite eye opening.

Read it, then imagine a justice system in which there are no safeguards at all.
 

Mr. Shaman

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Need more information. One reporter claiming this is not proof. I've caught the media in so many lies, I have little doubt this is another. The whole point of the that line is to get you to watch the news, and it worked. They have you hook line and sinker.
....As-opposed-to the stringer FULL o' "conservative"-suckers!!!!

:p

"When CIA officials subjected their first high-value captive, Abu Zubaida, to waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods, they were convinced that they had in their custody an al-Qaeda leader who knew details of operations yet to be unleashed, and they were facing increasing pressure from the White House to get those secrets out of him.

The methods succeeded in breaking him, and the stories he told of al-Qaeda terrorism plots sent CIA officers around the globe chasing leads.

In the end, though, not a single significant plot was foiled as a result of Abu Zubaida's tortured confessions, according to former senior government officials who closely followed the interrogations. Nearly all of the leads attained through the harsh measures quickly evaporated, while most of the useful information from Abu Zubaida -- chiefly names of al-Qaeda members and associates -- was obtained before waterboarding was introduced, they said."
 

Mr. Shaman

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60 minutes kool-aid.
they make it look so official and professional.

people in Gitmo aren't there because they are innocent. but I betcha you can go to any prison in the US and ask the guys if they did it and 90% would claim innocence.
been to a prison boy?
Yeah.....60 Minutes does such a disservice to Justice.

:rolleyes:
 

Mr. Shaman

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And I'm sure bewitched, along with living with the Taliban, you've been to prison.

I'm sure plenty of innocent people have been caught up in Guantanamo because America panicked big time a while back and arrested anyone on the flimsiest evidence.
.....After paying-out MEGA-BOUNTIES!!!!!
 

Mr. Shaman

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There is simply no excuse for the actions described in this story. With the reports that have surfaced recently regarding abuse of US detainees, and the soldiers and MPs who have come forward with 1st hand accounts of such...this story does not strike me as untrue, or surprising. What does surprise me is the lengths that people will go in attempts to defend and justify what are clearly injustices.
Ya' just need to put the right-people in-place.

torquegonzales.jpg

"Gonzales personal biography is filled with tidbits that challenge his worthiness as future Attorney General. In Texas he was appointed the Governors general counsel, which means that he provided advice to Governor Bush on nearly 160 death penalty cases.

Now, there's a cushy job; "green lighting" a bloodthirsty sociopath to dispatch as many people as possible to their eternal reward (via the electric chair). Is this what qualifies Gonzales as A.G?

The AP reports that Gonzales has "also built a reputation of loyalty to the president, fighting sometimes difficult legal battles. He blocked attempts by Congress to make public details of Vice President Dick Cheney's energy commission meetings". Gonzales legal expertise has been primarily devoted to obfuscating the corporate collusion and venal machinations of Bush Inc.

He has also defended the President's right to incarcerate prisoners indefinitely without charges; investing the President with the implicit authority to rescind constitutional protections and overturn international law. Furthermore, he supports the horrible travesty of justice taking place at Guantanamo Bay. Gonzales defends the "so called" military tribunals even though they have been resoundingly condemned by Army attorneys, civil liberties advocates and the world press. Just last week US District Judge James Robertson put a stop to the Guantanamo proceedings, ruling that detainees are "entitled to protections afforded prisoners of war under Article 4 of the Geneva Convention" ... and that they "may not be tried by a military commission."
 
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Mr. Shaman

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Again, I still don't believe it yet. I'm currently reading "Off with their heads!" by Dick Morris, and it's shocking how much major media outlets can slant the news to whatever view they want. Having witnessed completely fabricated news stories myself, I just don't believe it.
.....Yet, you'll (actually) buy a liar's book???? :confused:

That makes sense, to you, huh?

:rolleyes:
 
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