For Palerider: The Problem With Muslims

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9sublime

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That wasn't your point. You're point was that you had never seen an organized anti-radical Islam event or organization. This was set up by several anti-government organizations and one happened the week before. And it will cause change, they will change their president, and move away from radical Islam. I was showing you how a Muslim country still wants it's army and government secular.
 

palerider

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That wasn't your point. You're point was that you had never seen an organized anti-radical Islam event or organization. This was set up by several anti-government organizations and one happened the week before. And it will cause change, they will change their president, and move away from radical Islam. I was showing you how a Muslim country still wants it's army and government secular.


No. My point wasn't that I have never seen muslims protest against terrorist activities, my point was that the vast vast vast majority of muslims, through their continued silence, concent to, and encourage terrorism in the name of allah.

By the way, turkey is not a muslim country. Perhaps most of its citizens are muslim but it is not a muslim country.
 

rmarin

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No. My point wasn't that I have never seen muslims protest against terrorist activities, my point was that the vast vast vast majority of muslims, through their continued silence, concent to, and encourage terrorism in the name of allah.

By the way, turkey is not a muslim country. Perhaps most of its citizens are muslim but it is not a muslim country.
Agreed. And the world has not received many threats from Turkey.
 

vyo476

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No. My point wasn't that I have never seen muslims protest against terrorist activities, my point was that the vast vast vast majority of muslims, through their continued silence, concent to, and encourage terrorism in the name of allah.

Palerider, by your rhetoric, doesn't the Qur'an instruct Muslims to wage jihad? Specifically to take action? Than why aren't more of the 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide doing so? Aren't they already "bad Muslims" then, since they aren't actively waging jihad? The Qur'an does not say, "Wage jihad...or sit around and watch while others do it."

This is, of course, disregarding the unsettled disagreement we've already had on the real meaning of "jihad."
 

Fonz

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I completely agree with Palerider.

It is unfortunate, that he gives Christians a free ride, rather hypocritcal if you ask me, but At least he recognizes that we oughta stop treating Islam like its some sort of peaceful religion thats been hijacked by extremists.
 

9sublime

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Well when was the last time you say 750,000 + rally against peadaphilia twice in a week? So once again we are coming to the conclusion that everyone is a peadaphile.
 

palerider

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Palerider, by your rhetoric, doesn't the Qur'an instruct Muslims to wage jihad? Specifically to take action? Than why aren't more of the 1.4 billion Muslims worldwide doing so? Aren't they already "bad Muslims" then, since they aren't actively waging jihad? The Qur'an does not say, "Wage jihad...or sit around and watch while others do it."

Yes, they are bad muslims which is why they maintain their silence. Should they speak out, they will be proclaiming openly that they are bad muslims and become infidels in the eyes of the good muslims.

This is, of course, disregarding the unsettled disagreement we've already had on the real meaning of "jihad."

The books of the qur'an describe perfectly the meaning of jihad.

The qur'an issued its first order to fight Jihad in the 190th verse of the 2nd surah. The translators of the qur'an wanted to make certain Muslims understood what "Fighting in the Way of Allah" meant. So they provided this definition which is derived entirely from the Qur'an and Sunnah:

"Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies with one of the qualities of a hypocrite."

Qur'an 9:5 "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."


Bukhari:V4B53N386: "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: 'Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.'"


The "real" meaning of jihad is obvious.
 

9sublime

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All these quotes from Islam. These are outdated and not believed by most Muslims. The Bible teaches exactly the same thing in many passages, and even more ridiculous things in other.

YOU NEED TO LET GO OF PASSAGES LIKE THIS JUST LIKE YOU HAVE LET THEM SLIP IN CHRISTIANITY BEFORE YOU CAN BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND NORMAL ISLAM AS IT IS TODAY.
 

vyo476

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"Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of numbers and weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah’s Word is made superior (which means only Allah has the right to be worshiped), and Islam is propagated. By abandoning Jihad Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position; their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape from this duty, or does not fulfill this duty, dies with one of the qualities of a hypocrite."

Qur'an 9:5 "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Yes, they are bad muslims which is why they maintain their silence. Should they speak out, they will be proclaiming openly that they are bad muslims and become infidels in the eyes of the good muslims.

But they already would be infidels in the eyes of the "good" Muslims. By refusing to fight in the name of Allah and simply sitting back and doing nothing they would be infidels, as bad as those that the mujahideen (sp?) are fighting. Whether or not silence is "consent" wouldn't matter; the "good" Muslims would have a duty to kill all the "silent" Muslims because all the "silent" Muslims would be violating a "pillar" of the "utmost importance in Islam."
 

9sublime

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To be honest Palerider, in the "probelm with muslims" thread, you said words to the effect that Muslims don't have any organizations against terrorism and radical Islam, but we don't need to actively rally against peadaphilia because we have organizations that do it for us.

Well, I've found a million people doing it, organized by various organizations that you said never existed.

It looks like your being beaten all over the forum, like the marajuana thread.
 
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palerider

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All these quotes from Islam. These are outdated and not believed by most Muslims. The Bible teaches exactly the same thing in many passages, and even more ridiculous things in other.

YOU NEED TO LET GO OF PASSAGES LIKE THIS JUST LIKE YOU HAVE LET THEM SLIP IN CHRISTIANITY BEFORE YOU CAN BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND NORMAL ISLAM AS IT IS TODAY.

Good Christians don't follow those instructions. Good muslims do. Which is exactly why muslims that don't follow them are very hesitant to reveal that they don't as they will be identifying themselves as infidels.
 
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