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....what does that mean "at its roots"??

4 posts up I said kids have been bullying other kids since time began what "roots" are you talking about?

Kids have been bullying other kids since there were kids, that's true. Some of them continue to bully others after they've grown up.

At what point do we say that bullying is not OK and start to not only impose sanctions of the bully, but to educate the populace as a whole to see just how wrong the bully is? Should we just pat the kids on the head and say, "well, it must be OK. Go ahead and make that kid's life miserable. He's different, after all."

One true hallmark of an educated person is the abiliity to get along with people who are different from him/herself. Schools are in the business of educating children.
 
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And I'm at a loss for how you come up with things like the contents of this post.

My posts are quite logical.

I have no problem with an open, honest, factual discussion of religion in schools. As I've mentioned before, I myself took several classes on religion throughout school and found them highly enlightening.

That is not the case in most schools.

Any mention of religion, any religion, is enough to make parents go baliistic.

I might be confused as to what you're saying. Are you suggesting that in order to teach tolerance to kids, we'd have to teach them adherence to a religion? We'd have to teach them religious values? What is it that you think I'd be so opposed to?

Of course not. I mean exactly what I said.

Tolerance is a subject matter of ethics -- not some talk of homosexuality concocted by gay activists who seem to be incapable existing as they are without society's validation.

This offends me a little. I am not a homosexual myself, but I was still different in many ways, and as a result I had a less than stellar school experience. Luckily I was always bigger than the other kids so I didn't get "beaten up," but I probably would have been had I not been fortunate in the size category.

I do not mean to offend you.

When you talk of tolerance for gays, then you get exactly that, tolerance for gays.

The idea is, people should be tolerant of ALL people.

I believe and promote tolerance towards everyone. I believe in educating kids about homosexuality because promoting tolerance towards homosexuals tends to be more difficult - other people understand them less than they understand, say, Goths. Just about everyone gets depressed from time to time, so even the "mainstream" kids in school at least understand, on some level, why the "Goth" kids (and yes, I was more or less "goth" in high school, in case you were wondering) are so down all the time. Getting straight kids to understand homosexuality is more difficult because they don't experience the same things homosexuals do.

The thing is, kids will be kids. We must let them sort out their problems on their own time and manner.

I just attended my highschool reunion and I marvel at the way things change and not change. The assholes are still assholes, the gays are still gays, and the nerds are still nerds, but making a helluva lot of money than the rest. That didn't stop us from getting piss-drunk and having a good time, though.

I'd be all for promotion of tolerance as virulently as possible. I don't want to see any kids getting beaten up, for any reason.

People need to learn to stand up on their own. Better to be done with this in highschool.
 
Ah, and therein lies the issue of policing people's thoughts. Dangerous, DANGEROUS proposition, dude.

The motive behind a crime shouldn't be a factor in deciding punishment. Whether you steal because you are hungry or steal because you're a kleptomaniac, the result should always be the same - xxx of days in prison.


so, no 1st/2nd/3rd degrees of murder? no manslaughter? you kill someone, you get the death penalty regardless of any circumstances?

if you're a ceo who seeks to make yourself richer by plundering the retirement pensions of your employees, is that not worse than a mother who steals an apple to give to her hungry child?

i think the circumstances surrounding a crime play a pretty major role on how we should punish them, personally. i agree that there are potential complications with hate crime laws, but i think there's a big difference between beating a dude to death and then dragging him behind a car because he was gay, versus getting into a fight with a guy who scuffed your puma and accidentally cracking his skull. not to say the second scenario isn't bad, but i think the first is unquestionably worse.
 
so, no 1st/2nd/3rd degrees of murder? no manslaughter? you kill someone, you get the death penalty regardless of any circumstances?

if you're a ceo who seeks to make yourself richer by plundering the retirement pensions of your employees, is that not worse than a mother who steals an apple to give to her hungry child?

i think the circumstances surrounding a crime play a pretty major role on how we should punish them, personally. i agree that there are potential complications with hate crime laws, but i think there's a big difference between beating a dude to death and then dragging him behind a car because he was gay, versus getting into a fight with a guy who scuffed your puma and accidentally cracking his skull. not to say the second scenario isn't bad, but i think the first is unquestionably worse.

I agree with what you say, except:

I see no difference between beating a dude to death and then dragging him behind your car because he was gay and beating a dude to death and then dragging him behind your car because he scuffed your puma.

And really, this is the only fair analogy.
 
Hmmm. First off, were there controls with regards to the use of condoms? Yes, it is undeniable that the risk of contracting AIDS is drastically increased by unprotected anal sex, but what about the use of protection? Was this taken into account? Anyhow, let's say that there are highly effective condoms which prevent any unholy bodily fluids from being passed on.
There is still, perhaps, the issue of rectal damage, and a risk of incontinency, even rectal prolapse. However, if sufficient protection and due care is taken, the health risks should be minimal.

Even if it does affect the health of consenting adults involved, it is still their choice to engage in such activity.
Whether or not this should influence school policy, is uncertain. Perhaps it should be kept out of the curriculum until at the age of at least 16. Frankly, kids are being educated about sex and sexuality too early. It is illegal to engage in sexual activity until sixteen here anyway, and thus, the only education should be preventative, although some kids inevitably illegally experiment anyway. Preventative education can at least keep those numbers low. If these underage kids don't take the illegality into account, they probably won't use protection, either. However, a proportion of this sub-group will. Sadly, we can't completely stop underage sex, we can only reduce it to miniscule amounts. Portraying it as completely negative won't stop it altogether, as rebellious youngsters are often attracted by that which is taboo and condemned by adults. This might apply less to homosexuality, which is bound to draw abuse from other kids, but still.
There are so many adverts which say that smoking gives you all sorts of horrible diseases, but this makes it cool to some minors. You get the idea.
 
In light of the irrefutable medical facts, it should be considered criminally reckless for educators to teach children that homosexual conduct is a normal, safe and perfectly acceptable alternative form of sexual expression (or “sexual orientation”).


I honestly see nothing wrong with educating children about homosexuality. We don't necessarily have to teach them that it is 'normal' and 'safe', but we should teach children that homosexuals are people, too. Children should be taught to have respect for all people, be they black, white, gay, or straight.
This is what DOS is truely about. It isn't about forcing homosexuality on children, it's about educating them, and teaching them to accept and respect every individual for who they are.
 
Please explain this fetish about "teaching" kids homosexuality! Are you proposing that they should also learn the sexual proclivities of every single weirdo and oddball on the Planet !!??

"Now children...quite please.... sit down... good!! Now take out your books. Today we're going to learn about spanking Japanese lesbians rolling around in warm strawberry jam whilst wearing latex strap-on dildos.......Yes....what is it Fred?"
"Ahhh C'mon Miss.....we did that last week....*boring*...."
"Oh so we did, well spotted Fred 16 gazzillion class points for listening!! Now than silly me, look the pages are stuck together!!...You're right Fred it should be multiple-orgasms for masturbating midgets today....."


Probably more interesting than boring old botty sex for broke back mountaineers!!

Wish they'd taught us about lesbians with some practical demonstrations........ahhhh dream on!!
 
Please explain this fetish about "teaching" kids homosexuality! Are you proposing that they should also learn the sexual proclivities of every single weirdo and oddball on the Planet !!??

"Now children...quite please.... sit down... good!! Now take out your books. Today we're going to learn about spanking Japanese lesbians rolling around in warm strawberry jam whilst wearing latex strap-on dildos.......Yes....what is it Fred?"
"Ahhh C'mon Miss.....we did that last week....*boring*...."
"Oh so we did, well spotted Fred 16 gazzillion class points for listening!! Now than silly me, look the pages are stuck together!!...You're right Fred it should be multiple-orgasms for masturbating midgets today....."


Probably more interesting than boring old botty sex for broke back mountaineers!!

Wish they'd taught us about lesbians with some practical demonstrations........ahhhh dream on!!


That was such a funny post. My brain is warped for ever now. But in all seriousness, I could agree with the above poster, that it is ok to teach at school tolerance to homosexual people just as you would teach tolerance to the various races and religions…….people in general.


If the real truth was they were only going to teach tolerance, I would be all for it, but it never stops there. People with agendas go further than just teaching tolerance. Who decides who teaches and who decides how much is enough and when you go to far, would be the problem for me.
 
That was such a funny post. My brain is warped for ever now. But in all seriousness, I could agree with the above poster, that it is ok to teach at school tolerance to homosexual people just as you would teach tolerance to the various races and religions…….people in general.


If the real truth was they were only going to teach tolerance, I would be all for it, but it never stops there. People with agendas go further than just teaching tolerance. Who decides who teaches and who decides how much is enough and when you go to far, would be the problem for me.
so you allow what might happen with a few people with agendas to stop you from supporting things?

methinks it does not compute
 
so you allow what might happen with a few people with agendas to stop you from supporting things?

methinks it does not compute

I do not allow people to Indoctrinate my kids. So far my little one has had none tried in school. That "usually" does not happen around here till middle school. At that point I will have to do more explaining on what she learned that day. I am lucky I work for the school district so I usually have a heads up on what is being taught that is controversial. So I can head it off at the pass.

I dont have any problems though with teaching all people deserve basic human respect.
 
I do not allow people to Indoctrinate my kids. So far my little one has had none tried in school. That "usually" does not happen around here till middle school. At that point I will have to do more explaining on what she learned that day. I am lucky I work for the school district so I usually have a heads up on what is being taught that is controversial. So I can head it off at the pass.

I dont have any problems though with teaching all people deserve basic human respect.
you do a disservice to kids if you shield a kid from controversy and education.

so you have a fear based agenda on your job? that is sad.

indoctrination is a strong term. can you back up this view that what others say is educational, although controversial is indoctrination?
 
I honestly see nothing wrong with educating children about homosexuality. We don't necessarily have to teach them that it is 'normal' and 'safe', but we should teach children that homosexuals are people, too. Children should be taught to have respect for all people, be they black, white, gay, or straight.
This is what DOS is truely about. It isn't about forcing homosexuality on children, it's about educating them, and teaching them to accept and respect every individual for who they are.

Let's not confuse teaching homosexuality with teaching tolerance. We certainly could teach tolerance without teaching homosexuality. Though it is not the schools place to teach values so neither acceptance of homosexuality (nor rejection), nor tolerance should be taught in public school.

What should be done in public school is that intolerance that has become abusive should just be punished. It is not the schools job to teach tolerance but it is the schools job to punish students that have misbehaved.

Does someone misunderstand the topic enough that they will wear a T-shirt that says "homosexuality is sin" So be it, they have free speech rights that trump someone else getting their feelings hurt. Is someone going to push a gay person because of their lifestyle (even just the slightest shove). Then punish them.
 
Let's not confuse teaching homosexuality with teaching tolerance. We certainly could teach tolerance without teaching homosexuality. Though it is not the schools place to teach values so neither acceptance of homosexuality (nor rejection), nor tolerance should be taught in public school.

What should be done in public school is that intolerance that has become abusive should just be punished. It is not the schools job to teach tolerance but it is the schools job to punish students that have misbehaved.

Does someone misunderstand the topic enough that they will wear a T-shirt that says "homosexuality is sin" So be it, they have free speech rights that trump someone else getting their feelings hurt. Is someone going to push a gay person because of their lifestyle (even just the slightest shove). Then punish them.
...hear hear...well said!!
 
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Let's not confuse teaching homosexuality with teaching tolerance. We certainly could teach tolerance without teaching homosexuality. Though it is not the schools place to teach values so neither acceptance of homosexuality (nor rejection), nor tolerance should be taught in public school.

What should be done in public school is that intolerance that has become abusive should just be punished. It is not the schools job to teach tolerance but it is the schools job to punish students that have misbehaved.

Does someone misunderstand the topic enough that they will wear a T-shirt that says "homosexuality is sin" So be it, they have free speech rights that trump someone else getting their feelings hurt. Is someone going to push a gay person because of their lifestyle (even just the slightest shove). Then punish them.


Would a T shirt that reads "God hates black people" be protected as free speech as well?
 
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