Good News Out of Iraq

Soldiers don't need a liberal pacifist saying what's best for them. What is best for our country is you and your ilk to get behind them and support their mission. That is "support," not cutting off their money, not throwing alot of stipulations onto our military on their training, deployments and equipment, not making timelines for defeat, not throwing in a billion dollars of earmarks to bribe other senators to vote for the bill.

You obviously did not read a thing I wrote. I clearly stated that a pull out was not the correct course of action. You keep failing to address what I say and instead you address me based on your conception of what "Liberals" believe. I don't want to cut off their money. I don't want a timeline. And your remark about billions in bribes is pure slander. The fact of the matter is that the government has and continues to shortchange the soldiers in many ways. For instance we have truck drivers for American contracted companies being paid four times what we pay our soldiers. We have

I don't believe that I said George Bush is the enemy. I believe that I said he is hindering our progress in Iraq by standing by strategies that do not work. This surge is working and it has only begun. Of course, you all don't want it to go on further because it will work and then George Bush and the country will have victory. What he is doing is just bad as those who are calling for a pull-out from Iraq.

Um...I distinctly remember writing that I don't care how Bush looks after this war. I do care how our country is.

No, you said that because you wanted to say look, our soldiers don't have body armor. The plain, simple truth is..our troops do have body armor. My son told me after his first tour that they were all well-equipped. He is on his second tour and he tells me they are all still well-equipped. That was a lie the liberals put forward to put down Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld. You bought it and it sounds good to you because it is rhetoric for our troops to not be there. It's a lie.

So you mean to tell me that the abundance of reports from CNN, MSNBC, FoxNews, and even the Pentagon itself reporting that in the first 3 years of the war almost 300 of the deaths of American soldiers could have been prevented had they been equipped with adequate body armor, or in some cases any armor at all. And what about the thousands of families who had to purchase the body armor that their soldiers wear. In the early part of the war it reached points where 25% of our active duty troops had no body armor. And how about the humvees that were destroyed by IEDs, surely it was just happenstance that the armored humvees could take the hits and survive while the unarmored humvees would be completely destroyed right? The Vietnam era m-16 scandal is a perfect example of how the actions of the government are not always in the best interests of our soldiers.

As far as us liberals are concerned I hope you realize that we never wanted to divide our country. You yourself just said in your post "You liberals and the enemy have so much in common. You want the United States of America to lose." This is exactly what is wrong with our country. People get this idea in their head that because people like me oppose an invasion we must hate the troops, and naturally because we want a change of strategy in Iraq we must want America to lose. And what you need to realize is that this is not a partisan issue. It's not Republican vs Democrat or liberal vs conservative. I honestly could not care less how George Bush looks coming out of this war. It really doesn't matter to me; give the whole administration Medals of Freedom for all I care. The Commander-in-Chief, during a time of war, was called a Nazi, dumb, idiot, loser, liar, and so many more. Yeah, sure..it's not D vs R. The whole thing is D vs R. Your members called our troops nazis, cold blooded killers, said they terrorized Iraqi women and children in the dead of night, said if they don't go to college they're stupid and will end up in Iraq as a soldier. See, I don't care if you want to walk away from your D vs R, but you spout all the rhetoric so you are a D and you are not fooling me by trying to pretend there is something larger here than politics.

He was called dumb, idiot, and loser all before the war. He's not the smartest Command in Chief we've had but it bothers me when people criticize his speech difficulties; I've had to speak in front of hundreds of people and I know how hard it can be to form your ideas and sentences. And I don't care how he pronounces Nuclear. None of that matters. I do believe that liar has been proven in the time since, however. But then again I would be impressed if you found a president who didn't have to lie in the course of his job. As for Nazi that was generally in response to his "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists" argument. Not to mention his surpression of political dissent as seen through the Valerie Plame incident. Also his unjustified invasion of a country. I have never called him a Nazi, whereas you have called me a terrorist. Take a look at yourself before you pass judgment.

And you are the moral arbitrator for strategy? Here's the fact..here's the reason..you all believe THERE IS NOTHING WORTH DYING FOR. Our troops know that freedom, liberty and the US are worth dying for. If you are worried about your children, then you should support our troops winning now because the enemy will follow our troops home and you will have much words than VA Tech in this country.

Um...I do support the troops. I have good friends in the armed forces. I don't believe I ever said I didn't support them. I think that's something you just made up to try and give creedence to your argument. And if by saying that I believe there is nothing worth dying for you mean that it is not worth dying to "liberate" a nation should have taken it upon itself to rebel as opposed to directing our resources to improving the lives of the impoverished and the ill here in America. Or how about helping the people of the world who can't fight for themselves. For instance how about those dying in the dozens of countries with more oppressed minorities, or more domineering regimes. There are people far more in need, the sad fact is that our government has connections with several of them.

So, there you go. George Bush is not intelligent. Gen Patreas is not intelligent. Do you think you are the intelligent one above them? You are nothing more than a pacifist who thinks that is a strategy.

Again you are putting words in my mouth that I did not say. But let us look back to the beginning of the invasion where Bush ignored the advice of the military and the Generals in the Pentagon. He was the one who thought that he was more intelligent then everyone else. I just don't understand your approach. It is in no ones best interest to ignore the reality of the situation. And to continue with your ranting about how we should all "SUPPORT THE TROOPS" means absolutely nothing. If everyone stops what they are doing and just believes really hard it's not suddenly going to make everything better. I don't know maybe that's what you think, but I prefer to be grounded in reality.

So, if you think cutting and running is not defeat and you think redeployment to Okinawa is not defeat, what exactly is defeat? When the Islamofacists kill your granny and your baby and celebrate as they do it, will you get it then? Will you get that our troops must be allowed to finish this instead of allowing it to come here?

Again you paid no attention to what I said. I don't know how many times I have to say it before you get it through your thick skull "A PULL-OUT OF IRAQ IS THE WRONG COURSE OF ACTION!"

Nevermind. It's useless. I'm wasting my time. You'd better go out and purchase, a koran, some burkas and a prayer rug because that's where you are headed.[/B]

Ok so now you are just a racist bigot. Are you really going to infer here that Islam is the problem or that being associated with Islam makes you a terrorist? Or are you actually saying that you think Muslims are going to invade. Also in case you were not familiar Iraq did not force women to wear burkas before the war. It is also rhetoric exactly like that, which gets people believing Christianity as the enemy, and is what gives grounds to what the radicals preach. Criticizing the government is not aiding terrorism, rhetoric like that, which you just spouted, does however.
I've gotten in some heated arguments here and almost everyone on the opposing side has put forth solid arguments but you're post here is just ridiculous. You did not respond to what I wrote, you responded to what you wanted to believe I wrote. You basically had a page long argument between yourself and some imaginary opponent.
 
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Did anybody catch the coverage from Iraq on 60 minutes last night? WOW!!!! They interviewed several people in Baghdad - the line for gasoline was several miles long. One man said he had waited as long as 3 days to fill up his tank before.

It's 4 years after the invasion and these people still can't get gas... WHERE IS ALL THE DAMN OIL GOING???????

It didn't look like things were improving much at all from that report. The family they interviewed was only leaving the house to take their kids to school - and they said that was really too dangerous.
 
the most Ironic part of that expose was the part about the Doctor that we Risked troops to go in and save in Bagdhad then 2 weeks later we just turned him loose

yeah Iraq really looks like we have improved theyre way of life dosent it?
 
They want to finish their job and that means VICTORY. [/B]




Please do explain to us Readers How exactly is it that they are to Achieve"VICTORY" against an "IDEOLOGY" you cannot
Defeat a an ideology it lives in the minds of men and women it does not have a culture nor a country it is loosely defined it wears no uniforms it comes and goes like the wind

you cannot achieve victory over an ideology
 
Please do explain to us Readers How exactly is it that they are to Achieve"VICTORY" against an "IDEOLOGY" you cannot
Defeat a an ideology it lives in the minds of men and women it does not have a culture nor a country it is loosely defined it wears no uniforms it comes and goes like the wind

you cannot achieve victory over an ideology

Well, yes, you can. People are capable of changing their minds. It's whether or not we're going about this whole Iraq thing in a way that'll do that, or even if we have a strong enough case to do so, that's the question.
 
your missing the Point
yes peoples minds can be changed............Terrorism is an Ideology that is as old as mankind.It does Not alone live in the minds of Afghanis,or Muslims, or Jews, or catholics, or gentiles, or russians.......Terrorism has NO nationality


It crosses ALL societal and geographical boundaries it lives in the mind of the very rich, and it lives in the minds of the very poor. the educated.....Un-educated.... etc etc etc. there is no defined structure or Defined Ideology it is as fleeting as ones thoughts


one day ordinary citizen going about routine life the next day rogue Killer, living in a cave in tora bora training to sliegh the infedel........or perhaps in an Irish pub Plotting the next London Bombing......or in a grass hut in mindinoa Phillipines training with PI guerillas to overthrow the govt


Terrorism isnt definable ...no way to Achieve a Victory over an intangable item as Terrorism is....you may get some muslims to "change theyre minds" even if you get ALL of them to change theyre minds YOU STILL HAVE NOT eliminated or defeated Terrorism as an ideology it will continue to prevail throughout time

there is no attainable defeat here im sorry your mistaken
 
I think I see what you're saying. We can't defeat "terrorism," only "terrorists." Clever. I agree with that; and I wish I could say that our goal in Iraq was simply to defeat a group of terrorists and not "terrorism" as a whole. Unfortunately, Mr. Bush has managed, through his general lack of communications skills, to make "terrorism" our target, so yeah...I suppose you're right.

There is a way to defeat "terrorism" and that is to not be afraid. We might "eliminate" it but we'd be beating it.

Still, with the appropriate change of course I still think something we could all call a victory could come out of Iraq. Win their hearts and minds and all that - although I'll admit that I haven't the faintest clue how to go about doing that.
 
I have been and could easily become a "terrorist" if provoked. If someone seriously harms a member of my family. I'm going after their family first.

You can't defeat the feelings within one's mind. And murdering more fellow countrymen in Iraq is not the prescription to get these acts of retaliation and tribal pride to stop.
 
If there is good news or progress in Iraq I'm sure as hell not reading about it, other than bull**** reports from the government, both ours and theirs.:confused:
 
Same way you win against Fascism, Communism, Imperialism etc. They still exist. The ideology will never surrender or sign a treaty. Best we can hope for is for it to whither and fade.
I would rather wage war against it, as opposed to accepting it, allowing it to achieve its goals and encouraging its use. Even if it can never be eliminated.
MARK
 
what a pointless ideology you have

to wage a war that you know you cannot win

pointless and arrogant
 
you cannot achieve that with terrorism
it is being demonstrated daily as they use 35 dollar IED's to F^ck up our troops on a daily basis
 
what a pointless ideology you have

to wage a war that you know you cannot win

pointless and arrogant

What part of "same way you win", did you not understand? Annihilation and elimination of the enemy isnt required for a "win" in war. MARK
 
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you cannot achieve that with terrorism
it is being demonstrated daily as they use 35 dollar IED's to F^ck up our troops on a daily basis

Sure you can. It doesn't happen within one generation. Most of the time you have to kill the current generation that perpetrates the ideology while concurrently making the specific ideology unappealing to the next generation.

A perfect example would be the IRA in Ireland. The next generation was simply convinced that the IRA was not the way to go and they had better options, thus the fighting stopped. The same must be done w/ Islamic Fascists.
 
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