Health Care Reform

[OldTrapper]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Sounds like the speeches pointing out the failures of socialized health care are having an effect. The lefties are moving to Stage 2: Pretend conservatives have no basis for their accusations, ignore the examples they give, pretend they are somehow "whining", call them names, but whatever you do, DON'T respond to their pointing out how your agenda has failed every time it's tried.

Wonder how long it will be before Stage 3 shows up.

I thought that was just normal behaviour for them, and now you say there is a worse stage for them.

No wonder the country is in trouble, and the Constitution means nothing.

 

[Devil505]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

The tide of support has ebbed...for both the administration and Democrat proposed HCR. The desperation in forcing this cobbled together, "nose in the tent" bill is because Democrats know the next election will unseat them.

The only legitimate way to measure the will of the people is through elections in a representative democracy. If you want another form of government.... this is the wrong country for you to live in.

 

[OldTrapper]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

The people freely elected the President & the Congress that we now have. This BS claim... that what they do does not represent the will of the people, is simply untrue and a "Sour Grapes" attempt to nullify the national elections of 2006 & 2008. If you don't like what these elected officials do........Vote them out of ofice next election.
This is not a banana republic that settles political disputes in the street with guns!

You are turning it into a banana republic in case you had not noticed. If what they are doing is the "will of the people" as you falsely claim, then there would be no problem in passing it. They still have the majority.

However, as BO, Pelosi, and Reid, have repeatedly stated, this bill is only the beginning. The lying Kucinich just did what the normal "progressive" does, and accepted the bribe from BO, and changed his vote. He knows that universal healthcare will eventually get there. That was what Pelosi was referring to when she said they would "fix it" after they passed what they have now.

Then there is the "Slaughter Rule" which is bound to bring Court challenges if it is used, and then you have the different States who are going to challenge it in the Courts.

So, good luck supporting your liars, and traitors. Eventually they will be stopped just as Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Wilson, and others have been since this BS was first introduced.

 

[Webrockk]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

The only legitimate way to measure the will of the people is through elections in a representative democracy. If you want another form of government.... this is the wrong country for you to live in.

C'mon, Devil....are you suggesting an impossibility of folks changing their minds about an administration or policy mid stream?

Weren't Bushes sustained approval numbers...peaking at 92%... the highest in history, right after the attacks on 9/11? Seems his popularity sank fairly quickly afterwards, right?

I guess it only matters who's currently driving the bus for those so blind to the obvious.

 

[Devil505]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

You are turning it into a banana republic in case you had not noticed. If what they are doing is the "will of the people" as you falsely claim, then there would be no problem in passing it. They still have the majority.

However, as BO, Pelosi, and Reid, have repeatedly stated, this bill is only the beginning. The lying Kucinich just did what the normal "progressive" does, and accepted the bribe from BO, and changed his vote. He knows that universal healthcare will eventually get there. That was what Pelosi was referring to when she said they would "fix it" after they passed what they have now.

Then there is the "Slaughter Rule" which is bound to bring Court challenges if it is used, and then you have the different States who are going to challenge it in the Courts.

So, good luck supporting your liars, and traitors. Eventually they will be stopped just as Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Wilson, and others have been since this BS was first introduced.

Feel better now OldTrapper? You know......at our age (I'm 63) it's not a good thing to get crazy over things beyond your control.
1. We voted for the government we have back in 2008 & that is the body that reflects the will of the people until the next election.
2. By definition (in a Democracy) anything they pass represents the will of the people.
3. The GOP lost control of the WH & both Houses of Congress & no amount of crying, threatening or sticking their tongues out...changes that.

Time for the GOP to stop acting like spoiled little rich brats, except reality & start acting like Americans again!

 

[Devil505]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

C'mon, Devil....are you suggesting an impossibility of folks changing their minds about an administration or policy mid stream?

Weren't Bushes sustained approval numbers...peaking at 92%... the highest in history, right after the attacks on 9/11? Seems his popularity sunk fairly quickly afterwards, right?

I guess it only matters who's currently driving the bus for those so blind to the obvious.

I'm suggesting that it's impossible to accurately determine the will of the American people between elections. Our government is not chosen based on notoriously inaccurate polls, it is chosen by the people at the ballot box.

Now.....Those of you Whiners.....that don't like that system.....maybe you really don't belong here anyway......SO....Take off your American Flag lapel pins, fly to a small banana republic somewhere & STFU!

 

[OldTrapper]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Feel better now OldTrapper? You know......at our age (I'm 63) it's not a good thing to get crazy over things beyond your control.
1. We voted for the government we have back in 2008 & that is the body that reflects the will of the people until the next election.
2. By definition (in a Democracy) anything they pass represents the will of the people.
3. The GOP lost control of the WH & both Houses of Congress & no amount of crying, threatening or sticking their tongues out...changes that.

Time for the GOP to stop acting like spoiled little rich brats, except reality & start acting like Americans again!

Yep. Roll over, play dead, leave your brains at the door, bend over, and accept whatever the congress gives you. Then, be so braindead you actually believe what they say.

That is what you do. Not me.

 

[Webrockk]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Time for the GOP to stop acting like spoiled little rich brats, except reality & start acting like Americans again!

I don't remember too much noble acceptance of the Bush administration from the left, Devil.

Are you so blindly partisan, you're unwilling to admit that opinions change?

You're seriously not attempting to suggest elections represent the "will of the people" throughout the entire course of an adminstrations term, are you?

Only when your team is in office, huh?

Laughably flawed position to take there, sir.

 

[Devil505]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Are you so blindly partisan, you're unwilling to admit that opinions change?

Where did I say the public opinion doesn't change?
I said the only way to accurately measure it is with elections. We had one in Nov/2008 & we won't have another until next November.
If we don't govern ourselves based on what the people want...as shown by free elections....What form of government would you prefer?
Dictatorship?-With Rush Limbaugh in charge
Oligarchy?- With the RNC in charge
Royalty?-with the Bush family KING

Tell me what is better than Democracy?

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
Winston Churchill

 

[Webrockk]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Where did I say the public opinion doesn't change?
I said the only way to accurately measure it is with elections. We had one in Nov/2008 & we won't have another until next November.
If we don't govern ourselves based on what the people want...as shown by free elections....What form of government would you prefer?
Dictatorship?-With Rush Limbaugh in charge
Oligarchy?- With the RNC in charge
Royalty?-with the Bush family KING

Tell me what is better than Democracy?

Nice spin...not buying it.

You said it was "impossible to accurately determine the will of the American people between elections"...and I'm suggesting that the left seemed to be able to do just that...in spades, during the the Bush administration.

If there is no way to determine such things, every President would be two term, and Congressmen and governors should just be given lifetime appointments...

 

[Devil505]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

You said it was "impossible to accurately determine the will of the American people between elections"..

It is. (if you know how to do it, let us all know....I'm all ears!)

If there is no way to determine such things, every President would be two term, and Congressmen and governors should just be given lifetime appointments...

No.....you simply have to wait until the next election to change things. It's worked just fine for well over 200 years now.

 

[Webrockk]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Your argument is patently ridiculous, and based on a "shut up, and quit complaining" premise...an argument, oddly enough coming from surely one of the biggest complainers during the Bush administration. Did you enjoy every policy they handed down? Obviously not....I can present evidence that you think at least one should be tried and hung for his "crimes"

This HCR is arguably the largest piece of legislation in history, and will fundamentally change our health care system...apparently, you believe American citizens should just blindly accept, without complaint or investigation, this crap because your team demands it, and simply "knows what's best for everyone"?

Is that about the gist of it?

Well, thank God for midterms, SCOTUS, the Constitution (which you apparently hold in disdain) and free will.

 

[asur]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Obama is pushing something similar but worse than what has failed in Canada?

Proponents of single payer health care systems or universal health care systems or whatever euphemism they are using these days will tell you that this is the only way to get everyone covered. But, Claude Castonguay, known as “the father of Quebec medicare,” says it’s a failure in Canada:

“We thought we could resolve the system’s problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it,” says Castonguay. But now he prescribes a radical overhaul: “We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice.”

Castonguay advocates contracting out services to the private sector, going so far as suggesting that public hospitals rent space during off-hours to entrepreneurial doctors. He supports co-pays for patients who want to see physicians. Castonguay, the man who championed public health insurance in Canada, now urges for the legalization of private health insurance.

 

[asur]

Obama Type Healthcare Failed in Canada

Proponents of single payer health care systems or universal health care systems or whatever euphemism they are using these days will tell you that this is the only way to get everyone covered. But, Claude Castonguay, known as “the father of Quebec medicare,” says it’s a failure in Canada:

“We thought we could resolve the system’s problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it,” says Castonguay. But now he prescribes a radical overhaul: “We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice.”

Castonguay advocates contracting out services to the private sector, going so far as suggesting that public hospitals rent space during off-hours to entrepreneurial doctors. He supports co-pays for patients who want to see physicians. Castonguay, the man who championed public health insurance in Canada, now urges for the legalization of private health insurance.

Now you know the rest of the story, that Obama is hiding from
you!

 

[Devil505]

Re: "conservatives"; Quit Your WHINING About Health-Care!

Your argument is patently ridiculous, and based on a "shut up, and quit complaining" premise...an argument, oddly enough coming from surely one of the biggest complainers during the Bush administration. Did you enjoy every policy they handed down? Obviously not....I can present evidence that you think at least one should be tried and hung for his "crimes"

This HCR is arguably the largest piece of legislation in history, and will fundamentally change our health care system...apparently, you believe American citizens should just blindly accept, without complaint or investigation, this crap because your team demands it, and simply "knows what's best for everyone"?

Is that about the gist of it?

Well, thank God for midterms, SCOTUS, the Constitution (which you apparently hold in disdain) and free will.

Was this a response to my post #120???