Inside the Koch World Convention

[dogtowner]

The solution is to get rid of the milk. Take away government's power to tax one group in order to subsidize another and the special interests will have very little reason to spend any money on politics or political campaigns.

taxing is constitutional, "subsidizing" is not. so getting rid of that takes us back to Lincoln's model (mostly). its a start but there is still ample reason for special interewsts to uy pols.

So you don't agree with the concept of, "I may not agree with what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"?

sure I do. saying something is SPEECH. giving money away is either charity (if you expect nothing in return) or commerce (if you do expect something). dont like how the country is, SAY SO. burning a flag is silly.

What an incredibly absurd thing to say... Money is the root of all evil... Ask yourself, what is the root of all money?

the actual expression begins with "the LOVE of money". a subtle but important distinction. and its moot if you substitute power for money. pols love that money as it fuels their ego trips.

 

[dogtowner]

In my extreme conservative period (during Reagan), I was a member of the John Birch Society and was given free stickers reading "this is a republic, not a democracy, let's keep it that way". Your post sure tells me you righties haven't changed agendas since then. We are certainly are a republic, but being so doesn't preclude our being a democracy too since our Constitution doesn't preclude it. You are just upset that money hasn't a louder voice and that the people might not be bought as easily as you wish

yes, it does preclude it if we are to operate constitutionally. represenative democracy is the law of the land.

 

[GenSeneca]

taxing is constitutional, "subsidizing" is not. so getting rid of that takes us back to Lincoln's model (mostly). its a start but there is still ample reason for special interewsts to uy pols.

SCOTUS has upheld the Welfare State as Constitutional, it's going to take a great deal of popular support and political backbone to turn off the spigot.

sure I do. saying something is SPEECH. giving money away is either charity (if you expect nothing in return) or commerce (if you do expect something). dont like how the country is, SAY SO. burning a flag is silly.

I also think it's despicable to burn the flag but Americans have the 1st amendment right to do so. Time is money, so while some people contribute their time as volunteers on campaigns, others contribute their time in the form of money. Now I doubt you would complain about anyone spending their time working for a campaign but maybe you actually believe that campaign volunteers are doing it out of charity, or because they expect something in return, but that leaves out the possibility that they would donate their time/money because they actually believe in the cause and want to support it.

the actual expression begins with "the LOVE of money". a subtle but important distinction. and its moot if you substitute power for money. pols love that money as it fuels their ego trips.

There's nothing wrong with the love of money, it represents achievement, accomplishment, the physical manifestation of labor in a form that may be accumulated. Power we might agree on but so long as that power precludes the possibility of initiating force or employing fraud (legally or illegally) against others, there's nothing wrong with the love of power either.

 

[GenSeneca]

It's pathetic how Leftists flip out over all the money the Libertarian Koch brothers spend on politics, and label them as Right Wing Extremists, while totally ignoring the insane amount of money George Soros spends on hardcore Leftist politicians and political causes. Here's a good article that looks at the money Soros and Koch spend on politics:

Capital Rivals: Koch Brothers vs. George Soros

Just keep in mind that spending billions on lobbying, and funding political organizations, is only bad for "democracy!" when it's not used to support Left wing causes.

 

[dogtowner]

SCOTUS has upheld the Welfare State as Constitutional, it's going to take a great deal of popular support and political backbone to turn off the spigot.

I'm afraid it might require Almighty God or an armed uprising among the citizenry.

I also think it's despicable to burn the flag but Americans have the 1st amendment right to do so. Time is money, so while some people contribute their time as volunteers on campaigns, others contribute their time in the form of money. Now I doubt you would complain about anyone spending their time working for a campaign but maybe you actually believe that campaign volunteers are doing it out of charity, or because they expect something in return, but that leaves out the possibility that they would donate their time/money because they actually believe in the cause and want to support it.

yes, SCOTUS has ruled that (flag burning), I don't agree any more than I agree with abortion on demand. they don't always get it right but that is seldom their goal. nothing wrong with supporting something but its a dramatic leap to get to free speech from there.

There's nothing wrong with the love of money, it represents achievement, accomplishment, the physical manifestation of labor in a form that may be accumulated. Power we might agree on but so long as that power precludes the possibility of initiating force or employing fraud (legally or illegally) against others, there's nothing wrong with the love of power either.

money can represent achievement etc but in that light its the love of the sense of accomplishment, the money is incidental. when the money itself is the object of your affection it opens you to wrong influences aka evil.

as I said, I understand your position I just dont agree with it.

 

[GenSeneca]

Since Lefties want to complain about how unfair Super PAC's are... Here's more info, i.e. facts... Also know as kryptonite to the Left:
2012 Outside Spending, by Super PACs

Against Republicans - $70.8 million​

Against Democrats - $3.1 million​

​

For Republicans - $45.4 million​

For Democrats - $4.3 million​

Total in favor of Republicans - $48.5 million​

Total in favor of Democrats - $75.1 million​

​

Two things should be blatantly clear when we look at those numbers. 1, Pro-Democrat super PAC's outspent Pro-Republican ones and 2, Democrats dominate the field for running negative attack ads.

 

[GenSeneca]

nothing wrong with supporting something but its a dramatic leap to get to free speech from there.

Since you don't consider it speech, then Freedom of Expression.... Is that covered by the 1st or don't you believe there is such a right?

when the money itself is the object of your affection it opens you to wrong influences aka evil.

That's absurd... You could claim that a love for anything has the potential to influence you to do evil. For example, the love of God and Christianity was the impetus for the Salem Witch trials and several other acts of pure evil. On the flip side you have the Soviets whose love of Communism led to mass genocide. So using that logic, it should therefore be concluded that LOVE is the root of all evil.

 

[David Hilbert]

Top All-Time Donors, 1989-2012

#1 on the list is solidly Democrat, of the first 18 biggest spending special interest groups not one leans Republican, you have to go down to #62 on the list before you get to one that's solidly Republican.

Your own link refutes this assertion

 

[GenSeneca]

Your own link refutes this assertion

Either you're a pathalogical liar or you failed to read/comprehend the ranking system found at the top left of the page that explains the icon system and the terms being used. For example, "Solidly Democrat" is represented by 3 blue donkeys. #1 on the list is "Solidly Democrat", represented by 3 blue donkeys, and you have to go all the way down to #62 on the list to find one that's "Solidly Republican", represented by 3 red elephants. Furthermore, the first 18 all have either 1 to 3 blue donkeys or are on the fence, symbolized by a white fence that indicates equal contributions to both parties.

Once again my statements are shown to be based on actual, demonstrable, facts.

 

[Cruella]

Never heard of the Koch Brothers before, not until this election. If they can counter Soros and all the lefty special interest money, then good on them. It's about time conservatives got a leg up with the media, academia and entertainment industries being in the tank for the communist Democrat party.

 

[dogtowner]

Since you don't consider it speech, then Freedom of Expression.... Is that covered by the 1st or don't you believe there is such a right?

I looked, didnt see it. Or here. Sounds like it's been invented ala "separation of church and state"{.

That's absurd... You could claim that a love for anything has the potential to influence you to do evil. For example, the love of God and Christianity was the impetus for the Salem Witch trials and several other acts of pure evil. On the flip side you have the Soviets whose love of Communism led to mass genocide. So using that logic, it should therefore be concluded that LOVE is the root of all evil.

Salem ? Please, you know better.
Soviets ? Loved that money and the power that goes with it. But you already knew that.

 

[GenSeneca]

I looked, didnt see it. Or here. Sounds like it's been invented ala "separation of church and state"{.




Salem ? Please, you know better.
Soviets ? Loved that money and the power that goes with it. But you already knew that.

Do you believe you have the right to ban people from doing things you disagree with (e.g flag burning) even though their actions are not violating the rights of others?

 

[dogtowner]

Do you believe you have the right to ban people from doing things you disagree with (e.g flag burning) even though their actions are not violating the rights of others?

Did I say that ? No. I said flag burning is not free speech. If one is not violating laws regarding burning stuff who cares ? Ifa childish and will potentially garner the negative attention its intended to do.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Are we now just handing over our democracy to mega-millionaires? The mega-millionaire, Koch Brothers are holding what eerily looks like a convention of a political party of mega-millionaires to channel mega-million donations to right wing causes to defeat Obama. Has our democracy been lost to the interests of big money?

http://www.blogforarizona.com/blog/2012/06/koch-world-convention-for-the-corporatocracy.html

Yes...and to the cheers of the Republican party.

 

[Gipper]

Yes...and to the cheers of the Republican party.

Oh...my good old buddy returns....to spout another few words of gibberish.

Please see the posts above to educate yourself...if you wish to know the truth...or you could continue with your delusions and not educate yourself.