Obama is a weak president. Hes even weaker than Jimmy Carter

[dogtowner]

But Obama wont take a page from George H W Bush who liberated Kuwait from Saddam.

Cant not wont.

 

[BigRob]

Our options at this time ate severely limited due to the actions/inactions over the last 5+ years. They are not aided by meaningless threats. Its not surprising thatfrustrations exist. I suppose we need to talk to eurozone to see what point represents going too far on vlad's part and communicate that as a united front. Crimera is gone and its not coming back. Its about stopping the bleeding now.

Crimea is probably gone, but we need to make damn sure we make Russia regret the decision.

 

[dogtowner]

Crimea is probably gone, but we need to make damn sure we make Russia regret the decision.

And how would you suggest we do that ? Seems to me Vlad has a powerful trump card in the form of controlling europe 's fuel. We squeeze vlad vlad squeezes europe europe screams at us. maybe im missing something.

 

[GBFan]

And how would you suggest we do that ? Seems to me Vlad has a powerful trump card in the form of controlling europe 's fuel. We squeeze vlad vlad squeezes europe europe screams at us. maybe im missing something.

Actually, his power card (pun intended) is natural gas and oil ... and we can trump that merely by opening up our natural gas for sale in Europe. In geopolitics, perception is reality ... if we increase natural gas exploration, approve the Keystone pipeline, and offer tax incentives to energy companies to sell natural gas to Europe, Putin will sit up and take notice. Driving the cost of natural gas down will adversely impact his economy.

When you couple that with a decisive military move ... approve missile defense systems for Estonia, Poland, and Romania, for example ... and sponsor the Ukraine into NATO, now you've got his attention.

Finally, you attack their economy externally ... and it is extremely combustible ... with sanctions, etc ... you can force the people to remove him ...

You don't always have to blow up your enemy ... but you DO have to give him the perception that you are willing to.

 

[dogtowner]

Actually, his power card (pun intended) is natural gas and oil ... and we can trump that merely by opening up our natural gas for sale in Europe. In geopolitics, perception is reality ... if we increase natural gas exploration, approve the Keystone pipeline, and offer tax incentives to energy companies to sell natural gas to Europe, Putin will sit up and take notice. Driving the cost of natural gas down will adversely impact his economy.

When you couple that with a decisive military move ... approve missile defense systems for Estonia, Poland, and Romania, for example ... and sponsor the Ukraine into NATO, now you've got his attention.

Finally, you attack their economy externally ... and it is extremely combustible ... with sanctions, etc ... you can force the people to remove him ...

You don't always have to blow up your enemy ... but you DO have to give him the perception that you are willing to.

Yes, we could attempt to replace Vlads fuel but how many years does that take ? Its not doable in a short enough term. Start and he turns off his spigot today. He can react imediiately, we cannot. Defense systems are good but still subject to immediate reprisal. He's in the catbird seat as far as I can see.

 

[GBFan]

Yes, we could attempt to replace Vlads fuel but how many years does that take ? Its not doable in a short enough term. Start and he turns off his spigot today. He can react imediiately, we cannot. Defense systems are good but still subject to immediate reprisal. He's in the catbird seat as far as I can see.

Wars start for only two reasons .... 1) somebody thinks they can gain something worth more than the cost, or 2) circumstances have pushed somebody into a corner and they can't get out any other way. Reason no. 1 was why Hitler started his push, and reason #2 is why Japan attacked us.

Neither of these apply to Russia ... assuming we take a strong enough military and economic stand. His economy cannot support a war .. the cost would greatly exceed the gain. He took advantage of a perceived weakness by the West, and gobbled up Crimea for nothing. He needs to be convinced that it won't happen again .. the next time the price will be TOO high.

As far as today ... we can, in fact, act immediately. He cannot afford to go to the mat on natural gas --- we have a surplus today, and we can increase production almost immediately. The main this is, though ... he can't afford for us to even start that process. Every time we drill a well, he loses his leverage. So, he would need to move BEFORE we start increasing. Make the threat ... tell him we're going to do it if he doesn't behave. The worst that can happen is he ignores it. He needs to know that his economy is the price of the next ill-advised action.

 

[dogtowner]

Wars start for only two reasons .... 1) somebody thinks they can gain something worth more than the cost, or 2) circumstances have pushed somebody into a corner and they can't get out any other way. Reason no. 1 was why Hitler started his push, and reason #2 is why Japan attacked us.

Neither of these apply to Russia ... assuming we take a strong enough military and economic stand. His economy cannot support a war .. the cost would greatly exceed the gain. He took advantage of a perceived weakness by the West, and gobbled up Crimea for nothing. He needs to be convinced that it won't happen again .. the next time the price will be TOO high.

As far as today ... we can, in fact, act immediately. He cannot afford to go to the mat on natural gas --- we have a surplus today, and we can increase production almost immediately. The main this is, though ... he can't afford for us to even start that process. Every time we drill a well, he loses his leverage. So, he would need to move BEFORE we start increasing. Make the threat ... tell him we're going to do it if he doesn't behave. The worst that can happen is he ignores it. He needs to know that his economy is the price of the next ill-advised action.

The natural gas is here europe is there. We have no means to move it that wont take quite some time to construct. He can turn europes gas in an hour or less. But say thete was an unknown pipeline we could fire up in an hour. Without that excess our gas spikes at the mete mention of hitting the spigot. Hiw unhappy do you think americans and business will become ? We have few options. Maybe none. There will be no threat of war over crimea ukrain or any other former ussr place. That will require a new allies which includes ROC. Talk about you strange bedfellows...

 

[BigRob]

And how would you suggest we do that ? Seems to me Vlad has a powerful trump card in the form of controlling europe 's fuel. We squeeze vlad vlad squeezes europe europe screams at us. maybe im missing something.

Let him turn the gas off. The Russian economy is not doing all that great, and if we basically get a larger scale repeat of the 2009 Russia-Ukraine gas crisis, then Russia will stand to lose billions it cannot afford to lose.

And it certainly doesn't hurt to think long term and start to get Europe working on the infrastructure to get gas elsewhere.

 

[dogtowner]

Let him turn the gas off. The Russian economy is not doing all that great, and if we basically get a larger scale repeat of the 2009 Russia-Ukraine gas crisis, then Russia will stand to lose billions it cannot afford to lose.

And it certainly doesn't hurt to think long term and start to get Europe working on the infrastructure to get gas elsewhere.

Think europe will be ok with that ? Agreed wr should initiate that infrastructure and europe would do well to have choices. Y4s it jhurys russia but it hurys europe too andthat hurts us as they buy a lot from us. Its the threat that does the work.

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Ok, so your argument amounts to we cannot do anything anywhere in the world because we "need" a failed superpower to "help us" on major issues. What a load of crap.

Russia has shown no willingness to help us on any of these items before, they have only shown a willingness to help themselves at our expense in regards to them.

Russia is helping..Not much but we are able to use there territory to bring equipment out of Afganistan, and they did not veto UN sanctions on Iran...its not actively helping, but not vetoing it basically is as good as a yes vote. And 2nd rate or not, there are major issues we care about more that they can make alot harder on us...And for a Non NATO nation. Had Ukraine joined NATO we would have fight back harder, but they did not. Also Russia can crush Europe econ with its gas, no one in the EU is realy jumping up to send troops in, or hit hard enough where russia hits back with its OIL weapon. That said is been suggeste the US could open its Strategic oil supply to lower the income they get on that fuel on the world market, hitting there econ pretty hard, but that could also hurt US oil companies and need help from OPEC, ( unlikely). But its not always best to go all out right away, better to slow squeeze them

 

[pocketfullofshells]

Our options at this time ate severely limited due to the actions/inactions over the last 5+ years. They are not aided by meaningless threats. Its not surprising thatfrustrations exist. I suppose we need to talk to eurozone to see what point represents going too far on vlad's part and communicate that as a united front. Crimera is gone and its not coming back. Its about stopping the bleeding now.

I see , so 8 yeras of Bush Inaction has nothing to do withit...Bullshit...It has to do with a simple fact. Russia has the power in that area and the US has a lack of interest. You know why Bush did nothing when they invaded Georgia? same reasons...lack of Interest and high costs. Its Russias spear of Influence regardless who is in power. You can't name one thing a republican would be able to do that would have prevented it. Though maybe if Republicans in Congress had the balls to let us smack Syria down, it may have gave him a 2nd thought..

 

[GBFan]

I see , so 8 yeras of Bush Inaction has nothing to do withit...Bullshit...It has to do with a simple fact. Russia has the power in that area and the US has a lack of interest. You know why Bush did nothing when they invaded Georgia? same reasons...lack of Interest and high costs. Its Russias spear of Influence regardless who is in power. You can't name one thing a republican would be able to do that would have prevented it. Though maybe if Republicans in Congress had the balls to let us smack Syria down, it may have gave him a 2nd thought..

Revisionist history at its finest .... a skill unique to the liberal loons.

 

[Texas_tea]

Revisionist history at its finest .... a skill unique to the liberal loons.

Liberalism is completely void of any moral base. Right, wrong, fact, or fiction matters not.

As long as the means justify the end and in this case the end being total and absolute government control.

 

[steveox]

The Tea Party is an revolutionist.

 

[dogtowner]

I see , so 8 yeras of Bush Inaction has nothing to do withit...Bullshit...It has to do with a simple fact. Russia has the power in that area and the US has a lack of interest. You know why Bush did nothing when they invaded Georgia? same reasons...lack of Interest and high costs. Its Russias spear of Influence regardless who is in power. You can't name one thing a republican would be able to do that would have prevented it. Though maybe if Republicans in Congress had the balls to let us smack Syria down, it may have gave him a 2nd thought..

May want to review events surrounding that deal. And Bush did what BO could not, get other countries on board.