I am appalled by the Florida Congressman's recent actions attempting to seduce his congressional page. I am equally appalled that this will simply be used as leverage against parties, and no really powerful message will be sent. This is beyond party lines, the point is that politicians or any adult for that matter should NOT be trying to engage in sexual relations with kids. I am disgusted that people like this can make it to positions of power. Its times like this that I am ashamed of what the world thinks of us.
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Politicians Diddling Kids
- Thread starter Agaric
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I would love to say it doesnt effect his political view points, but lets face it, He did it on the job!
His job is working for the public! Yes this does make it "up for public consideration" IMO. Obviously we have an abuse of power in this situation. He felt he could use his position as an outlet for scandalous behavior.
I would review his office as well as all that knew of this scandal as it was happening. Clear out the rot!
His job is working for the public! Yes this does make it "up for public consideration" IMO. Obviously we have an abuse of power in this situation. He felt he could use his position as an outlet for scandalous behavior.
I would review his office as well as all that knew of this scandal as it was happening. Clear out the rot!
At this point, I have no sympathy for Foley. Checking into rehab with an alcohol related problem seems to have timing that smacks of being phoney.
Also, that he claims to have been abused as an altar boy doesn't wash with me either.
I'm far more concerned if he had a negative effect on any of the pages, and also what he's doing to the Republican Party. If I never hear his name again, fine!
Also, that he claims to have been abused as an altar boy doesn't wash with me either.
I'm far more concerned if he had a negative effect on any of the pages, and also what he's doing to the Republican Party. If I never hear his name again, fine!
I don't think that his claim of abuse in any way justifies his behavior though it may expalin some of the root causes of it.
As for being political I think their are people like this in both parties and it is not simply a Republician vs Democrat thing.
As for being political I think their are people like this in both parties and it is not simply a Republician vs Democrat thing.
Right! I went and read various journal sources on the scandal and its progress. I'll see what I can remember...as my browser just reset and I lost my post.
It would be fairly easy to suspect a "conspiracy type theory" of sorts regarding his recent relevation of homosexuality and alcoholism, as this may be playing the 'anti-discrimination backlash' card. On the other hand, it could be a genuinely forced play, and the declaration of shame could be a significant factor. In fact, I'm willing to say that it is, but how significant compared to everything else remains to be seen.
At the root of this however, seem to be two justified causes of outrage: As Palefrost (and Bush) point out, his actions do constitute inappropriate conduct, and that he did this in a public post means that his actions also constitute a breach of trust/abuse of power. As soon as they became apparent, I would have thought it appropriate to review his position, and grounds for call to resignation would be if it were further apparent that his behavior was not manageable. I would be interested further to know why Dennis (House of reps) acted how he did, obviously as it would shed some light on whether calls for him to resign are justified.
Amongst various editorials, I see some misconceptions. First, fellow Republicans are shocked at this because Foley was apparently a staunch anti child abuse and anti child pornography campaigner. The shock would typically come from percieving that he was being hypocritical (as I've seen), but this judgment is far too hasty, as upon closer examination, the two may not be related (just as confessions of alcoholism and homosexuality may not be directly related either).
Of clinical significance is the fact that Foley's conduct is not defined as pedophilia so much as perhaps ehebophilia (attraction to young, but not pre-pubescent people). The etiology of this can be quite different, but I obviously can't run a psych assessment on Foley from behind my desk in Australia!
Basically all I'm saying there is that while it is inappropriate to judge in the first place, it is even more inappropriate to judge Foley as a pedophile as it is likely inaccurate. I do agree with Todd's line of thought here- discussion of the relevance of events along a developmental timeline and their influence on behavior as opposed to congenital predilection is a tricky thing and would require more personal information that I suspect we will not be privy to.
It would be fairly easy to suspect a "conspiracy type theory" of sorts regarding his recent relevation of homosexuality and alcoholism, as this may be playing the 'anti-discrimination backlash' card. On the other hand, it could be a genuinely forced play, and the declaration of shame could be a significant factor. In fact, I'm willing to say that it is, but how significant compared to everything else remains to be seen.
At the root of this however, seem to be two justified causes of outrage: As Palefrost (and Bush) point out, his actions do constitute inappropriate conduct, and that he did this in a public post means that his actions also constitute a breach of trust/abuse of power. As soon as they became apparent, I would have thought it appropriate to review his position, and grounds for call to resignation would be if it were further apparent that his behavior was not manageable. I would be interested further to know why Dennis (House of reps) acted how he did, obviously as it would shed some light on whether calls for him to resign are justified.
Amongst various editorials, I see some misconceptions. First, fellow Republicans are shocked at this because Foley was apparently a staunch anti child abuse and anti child pornography campaigner. The shock would typically come from percieving that he was being hypocritical (as I've seen), but this judgment is far too hasty, as upon closer examination, the two may not be related (just as confessions of alcoholism and homosexuality may not be directly related either).
Of clinical significance is the fact that Foley's conduct is not defined as pedophilia so much as perhaps ehebophilia (attraction to young, but not pre-pubescent people). The etiology of this can be quite different, but I obviously can't run a psych assessment on Foley from behind my desk in Australia!
Basically all I'm saying there is that while it is inappropriate to judge in the first place, it is even more inappropriate to judge Foley as a pedophile as it is likely inaccurate. I do agree with Todd's line of thought here- discussion of the relevance of events along a developmental timeline and their influence on behavior as opposed to congenital predilection is a tricky thing and would require more personal information that I suspect we will not be privy to.
I agree when you say that Foley can't really be deemed a pedophile. What was wrong about his actions was that he used a position of power to try and make a professional relationship with someone younger than him into something more than professional. It's comparable to a teacher hitting on a student. It's something you just don't do.
/rant on
The whole thing just pisses me off! Here we have a position of power that was ABUSED!!! His higher ups PROTECTED him!! They get to stay on the job continuing to do more of the same BULLSHIT! The public are the ones that pay for this crap. If this asshats worked at the local school they would be out on their cans faster then (name something fast here). This is just another indication of the current administrations stubborn, controlling, greedy, uncaring and unproductive nature and i cant wait to the Bush years are behind us!
Here we have another asshat Hastert like Rumsfield, whos to freakin stubborn and greedy to leave his position of power over the needs and concerns of the country. How is this helping the people in this country? How does having this fat pig dinosaur who has proven he cant keep his office in check help us as a country???
Now, im wondering is it politics that corrupt the people or the people corrupting politics!! UGH!!!
Anytime you start blaming past abuse and alcohol for molesting little boys its time to take off the rose colored glasses and get freakin REAL! /rant off
The whole thing just pisses me off! Here we have a position of power that was ABUSED!!! His higher ups PROTECTED him!! They get to stay on the job continuing to do more of the same BULLSHIT! The public are the ones that pay for this crap. If this asshats worked at the local school they would be out on their cans faster then (name something fast here). This is just another indication of the current administrations stubborn, controlling, greedy, uncaring and unproductive nature and i cant wait to the Bush years are behind us!
Here we have another asshat Hastert like Rumsfield, whos to freakin stubborn and greedy to leave his position of power over the needs and concerns of the country. How is this helping the people in this country? How does having this fat pig dinosaur who has proven he cant keep his office in check help us as a country???
Now, im wondering is it politics that corrupt the people or the people corrupting politics!! UGH!!!
Anytime you start blaming past abuse and alcohol for molesting little boys its time to take off the rose colored glasses and get freakin REAL! /rant off
Let's validate that rant! 
Now, im wondering is it politics that corrupt the people or the people corrupting politics!! UGH!!!
It's both, really. Since people corrupt politics and politics becomes corrupted, thus corrupting people who partake of it. Politics isn't politics anymore.
Anytime you start blaming past abuse and alcohol for molesting little boys its time to take off the rose colored glasses and get freakin REAL!
An actual subscription to the excuse (as in "It's not my fault I left inappropriate messages on those phones") would entail subscription to determinism, to which I reply "please, DO get real!" I do not think anybody would reasonably expect that to be the end of it, but perhaps as opposed to saying nothing...
Now:
It's comparable to a teacher hitting on a student. It's something you just don't do.
Bounds and guidelines of professional conduct is a solid principle, IMO, but all the same, I'd love to ask: "Why?"
Now, im wondering is it politics that corrupt the people or the people corrupting politics!! UGH!!!
It's both, really. Since people corrupt politics and politics becomes corrupted, thus corrupting people who partake of it. Politics isn't politics anymore.
Anytime you start blaming past abuse and alcohol for molesting little boys its time to take off the rose colored glasses and get freakin REAL!
An actual subscription to the excuse (as in "It's not my fault I left inappropriate messages on those phones") would entail subscription to determinism, to which I reply "please, DO get real!" I do not think anybody would reasonably expect that to be the end of it, but perhaps as opposed to saying nothing...
Now:
It's comparable to a teacher hitting on a student. It's something you just don't do.
Bounds and guidelines of professional conduct is a solid principle, IMO, but all the same, I'd love to ask: "Why?"
I wont even mention (but i will) that we haven't explored the fact that this old bugger is GAY!!! and a Pedophilia.
What grosses me out even more is. Most republicans hide behind Christianity. Is this the classic behavior we should expect from all Christians since the church itself has such a problem with pedophiles and gays?
What grosses me out even more is. Most republicans hide behind Christianity. Is this the classic behavior we should expect from all Christians since the church itself has such a problem with pedophiles and gays?
Excuuuuuuuuse me! We so have explored it. Not fully, to be sure, but I mentioned the specifics on the previous page already. :nono:
To rehash- I argued that his being gay (and alcoholic) is immaterial in relation to the actual breach of trust, either way (so it's nothing we can condemn him about but it certainly doesn't constitute anything resembling an adequate explanation or excuse). Also, I explained that his actions do not make him a pedophile, if anything, one would be better off using the term ehebophile. There is a significant difference in terms of the referred framework by which one might then explore his behavior and motives, if it is even applicable.
That said, this kind of breach of trust more recently became a commonly known (and feared) phenomenon within such institutions as the church and also in teaching services, as you would be well aware. The obvious reason for this is because previously, typically, such positions have guidelines or conditions that theoretically exclude such behavior, thus reducing one's suspicion whilst also providing a source by which predilections may be acted upon. It's very easy to condemn this kind of behavior outright, but, as is my habit, I would like people to think about the lack of constructive dialogue and understanding regarding such that undoubtedly mediates this particular 'predatory' or 'manipulative' behavior to a significant extent. Also, I will note that we are in the midst of a backlash and witch hunt, such that the charge "being a pedophile" is now seemingly a staple part of the breakdown of the justice system.
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