Progressives war on religion

dogtowner

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How about this "violation:"

The military tries to force a young atheist graduate to bow his head and clasp his hands during the benediction by the chaplain. . .and when he refuses, they threaten to exclude him from the graduation ceremony!

If he is atheist then he has no religion to be prevented from exercising.

While there was no reason not to respect his superior officer (the Chaplin) there should not have been a need to require it of him. That being said its clear that he made it known before the fact that he intended to do this which is willful disrespect. Should just not bowed the head at the time.
 
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pocketfullofshells

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If he is atheist then he has no religion to be prevented from exercising.

While there was no reason not to respect his superior officer (the Chaplin) there should not have been a need to require it of him. That being said its clear that he made it known before the fact that he intended to do this which is willful disrespect. Should just not bowed the head at the time.

Its Disrespectful for a non Christian to not just do what Christians want them to do for there religion?

Non Christians should be forced to act like Christians under threat...But you think its a war on Christians....
 

Openmind

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If he is atheist then he has no religion to be prevented from exercising.

While there was no reason not to respect his superior officer (the Chaplin) there should not have been a need to require it of him. That being said its clear that he made it known before the fact that he intended to do this which is willful disrespect. Should just not bowed the head at the time.


He made his intent known at the REHEARSAL.

There is NO MORE REASON to oblige an atheist to participate in a religious anything than it is to oblige a Christian to pray to Mohammed or a Muslim to take the sacrement of communion in a Catholic Church.

It is amazing how some people who claim to LOVE freedom and liberties are so willing to FORCE people into what THEY believe should be the norm!

Graduation of any kind (unless it is from a seminary) has NOTHING to do with religion. .a student deserves to be recognize at his graduation for the work he has accomplish during his course of study or his training, NOT because he is or is not a Christian!

And this graduate expressing his non-belief in religion and therefore his intention not to bow to a benediction should be regarded as a statement of honesty and integrity, and at the least be recognized as a exemple of free speech.

I am glad that this issue was resolved in favor of the graduate.
 

dogtowner

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He made his intent known at the REHEARSAL.

There is NO MORE REASON to oblige an atheist to participate in a religious anything than it is to oblige a Christian to pray to Mohammed or a Muslim to take the sacrement of communion in a Catholic Church.

It is amazing how some people who claim to LOVE freedom and liberties are so willing to FORCE people into what THEY believe should be the norm!

Graduation of any kind (unless it is from a seminary) has NOTHING to do with religion. .a student deserves to be recognize at his graduation for the work he has accomplish during his course of study or his training, NOT because he is or is not a Christian!

And this graduate expressing his non-belief in religion and therefore his intention not to bow to a benediction should be regarded as a statement of honesty and integrity, and at the least be recognized as a exemple of free speech.

I am glad that this issue was resolved in favor of the graduate.


rehearsal, my mistake.

He was not being made to participate in anything religious. Just stand/sit there in a manner consistent with the rest. The military does this a lot.

I too am glad it got worked out.
 

pocketfullofshells

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He made his intent known at the REHEARSAL.

There is NO MORE REASON to oblige an atheist to participate in a religious anything than it is to oblige a Christian to pray to Mohammed or a Muslim to take the sacrement of communion in a Catholic Church.

It is amazing how some people who claim to LOVE freedom and liberties are so willing to FORCE people into what THEY believe should be the norm!

Graduation of any kind (unless it is from a seminary) has NOTHING to do with religion. .a student deserves to be recognize at his graduation for the work he has accomplish during his course of study or his training, NOT because he is or is not a Christian!

And this graduate expressing his non-belief in religion and therefore his intention not to bow to a benediction should be regarded as a statement of honesty and integrity, and at the least be recognized as a exemple of free speech.

I am glad that this issue was resolved in favor of the graduate.

I find that often people of faith, for me is mostly Christians, but thats most likey do to the fact that is who I talk to the most, don't always have the ability to look at there actions and words...from the view of anyone other then someone of there own faith.

They will scream about not being able to pray at school...even though its not that hard to say a prayer if one wants to, at any time, and have no one else know even. Now if at the same school, a group of Muslims want to stop put down prayer rugs in the middle of class , because is the time for the call to prayers....well thats just horrible and should not be done in our schools.

They should have the right to have a team Prayer before a football game, who cares if 5 of the players are not Christian, and will never have there faith represented. And if the coach was having them all yell Abu Akbar! . they would have the coach kicked out of school.

I say happy holidays to someone, they go off on me for not saying Merry Christmas...because of course in the 30 sec of talking with this person, I can always just figure out there Religious views and faith. The same people who complain that Secularist are trying to take the Religion out of Christmas ( we don't really care, but you know the world is against them) While at the same time they think that everyone should be fine with there Religious holiday being assumed on all people. But then again what should expect when a lot of these same people don't even know the basics of the Holiday..such as Jesus was not Born on Dec 25, not even in Dec most likely...they just hijack a different cultures holiday . And its the Commercialization of the Holiday that kills it, not some non Christian telling them can't have Christmas.
 

pocketfullofshells

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rehearsal, my mistake.

He was not being made to participate in anything religious. Just stand/sit there in a manner consistent with the rest. The military does this a lot.

I too am glad it got worked out.

in a manner consistent with the rest....doing a Religious act..

we did not make him do anything Religus, just make the sign of the cross , in the manner consistent with the rest..

Or is bowing your head suppose to be something other then prayer...Right
 

dogtowner

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in a manner consistent with the rest....doing a Religious act..

we did not make him do anything Religus, just make the sign of the cross , in the manner consistent with the rest..

Or is bowing your head suppose to be something other then prayer...Right


Prayer is what you are thinking/saying. bowed head is respect. ask Obama. He was not presumably praying to all those people.
 

Openmind

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Prayer is what you are thinking/saying. bowed head is respect. ask Obama. He was not presumably praying to all those people.

Weren't you the one that said something about "respect having to be earned, not expected?"

There is nothing disrespectful with standing still, with your head high.
Bowing your head is originally a sign of submission. why would an atheist feel the need to submit to a chaplin or to a God he doesn't believe in?

Would you submit to Buddha or mahommet?

Get over it. The graduate was correcr. He could have chosen to say nothing, but apparently he was saying nothing, just keeping his head up. . . And that wasn't good enough. . . . So he had to say someing, or submit to something he doesn't believe in.

He was right, and, obviously, he won the argument.
 

Dr.Who

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The atheist should not have to bow his head.

So yes, there are many religious people who try to impose their ideas on others and yes the progressive war on religion does exist. There is no doubt a correlation between these two statements.

Time for everyone to understand what freedom means. Your own brand of freedom cannot continue as long as you don't uphold your neighbors freedom.

(personally there are times as a committed Christian that I do not bow my head. I am motivated by the verses that commend boldness in approaching God. No one has ever had a problem with it. In fact the only time I ever ran into a problem was when I was an atheist and I had a delivery in a church. I left my hat on and was told to remove it. I was wrong to leave it on because I was insensitive. This atheist could also learn to be more senstive. But sensitivety should not be legislated)
 

Openmind

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The atheist should not have to bow his head.

So yes, there are many religious people who try to impose their ideas on others and yes the progressive war on religion does exist. There is no doubt a correlation between these two statements.

Time for everyone to understand what freedom means. Your own brand of freedom cannot continue as long as you don't uphold your neighbors freedom.

(personally there are times as a committed Christian that I do not bow my head. I am motivated by the verses that commend boldness in approaching God. No one has ever had a problem with it. In fact the only time I ever ran into a problem was when I was an atheist and I had a delivery in a church. I left my hat on and was told to remove it. I was wrong to leave it on because I was insensitive. This atheist could also learn to be more senstive. But sensitivety should not be legislated)

That's fair enough.. .
Although your personal exemple doesn't necessarely relate to the "religion" issue, more to the "social" issue.

I think, even today, most people do expect a gentleman to remove his hat even when visiting a person in her own home. I personally do not like even kids wearing caps around the house (wheter forward of backward), although I encourage every kid to wear a hat in the sun. . . and my husband, since, with the years, he has become kind of "thin" on top, and he gets sun burned!

But your statement is fair enough. . . I do't have an issue with bowing my head in any form of respect. . . but I would do it in a Christian church, a mosque, a temple, or a cemetery alike.

However, I would NOT do it just because I am told to do it, and I might even refuse to do it just to make a statement.
 

dogtowner

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Weren't you the one that said something about "respect having to be earned, not expected?"

There is nothing disrespectful with standing still, with your head high.
Bowing your head is originally a sign of submission. why would an atheist feel the need to submit to a chaplin or to a God he doesn't believe in?


Because the chaplain is a superior officer. Its the military don't forget.
 

Openmind

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Because the chaplain is a superior officer. Its the military don't forget.


A superior officer usually doesn't get people to BOW their head in front of them, or clasp their hands (unless it is behind their back!).

It is not the presence of a superior officer that was the driver of this demand on the students. . .it was the "religion" part of it.
 

dogtowner

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A superior officer usually doesn't get people to BOW their head in front of them, or clasp their hands (unless it is behind their back!).

It is not the presence of a superior officer that was the driver of this demand on the students. . .it was the "religion" part of it.


Certainly it was the driver for the graduate. Be interesting to see how his military career goes if he has a problem with authority he agreed to accept.
 
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