Should marijuana be legalized?

[Rokerijdude11]

If everywhere followed the same route as Holland, the Dutch wouldn't have to bear the brunt of all these junkies.

this is a fallacy....I have been to the netherlands every year since 1990 there are no more junkies on the streets like there USED to be in the early 90,s. The problem has been addressed fairly well do they have a fair share of junkies? perhaps junkies looking to try and get off of smack as the netherlands works with theyre junkies to try and help them get clean

 

[9sublime]

The dutch are growing some very serious, and expensive, social problems of their own as a result of their decisions. Junkies are flooding holland from all over europe and they aren't coming there because they have postitive contributions to make to the country.

I was saying this in response to this comment. If we all had the same drug policy as the Dutch, then they wouldn't all go to Holland like palerider says.

 

[palerider]

Nothing you can say will change my views NOTHING....thats just the way it is,Ill tell you though your welcome to be all you can be .take the challenge collect the dough show us how wrong i am by doing that

Of course nothing will change your views. They are based in faith rather than any scientific evidence and I am not going to try and make you give up your faith.

And jack is full of crap. He will never pay.

 

[palerider]

Its quite allright much of the evidence most people post is old ........why? because there are NO sanctioned governement studies to base them on. i dont buy any of the hype Im walking breathing living proof. that all of this is Crap,Im a 30+ yrs daily smoker....health is fine no cancers, i dont do any hard drugs, i dont drink,dont smoke tobacco,dont have memory loss,have an above average I.Q., am productive member in society..

And I had been away from the military for almost 30 years when I developed cancer as the result of exposure to chemicals in the military. For a very long time, I thought that I could say that I was walking, breathing, living proof that being the danger of military exposure to chemicals was hype as well. You don't get to say that you are proof of anyting until you know. At present, you don't know and any suggestion that you do is fantasy.

The evidence is growing all the time that you are quite simply, wrong.

One other thing. I won't dispute that you have a higher than average IQ. My bet is that most of the people here do. But having a high IQ isn't protection from doing things that are less than bright. Placing your faith in jack's opinion above credible scientific evidence is one of those things. Jack has no education that would lend him any credibility in a scientific discussion about the dangers of smoking anything. He is like the 90 year old that has smoked 3 packs of non filtered camels since he was 12 telling us that smoking cigarettes doesn't cause cancer. Admittedly, it didn't cause cancer in him, but that doesn't represent any proof at all that smoking doesn't cause cancer. Just as the fact that you don't have cancer yet is only proof that you don't have cancer yet and nothing more.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

Actually being that you have no sanctioned studies to support you, any further than i do..... quite simply your wrong.I see you have still yet to collect the money from Jack instead you decided you will try and impress people with YOUR OPINIONS rather than address jack with the facts.why because you simply dont have these facts. or else you would be famous which you arent as here you are wasting valuable time with ME !!!


Being harmed by chemical agents, designed to Kill things is in no way, a fair Comparison to smoking some pot.Im not placing my faith in Jack.........


I have LIVED the life, my WHOLE life, I am completly able to speak on the issue myself, without any input of Jacks. As i say Im a living experiment that stands to the testament, that the lies they propogate are BUNK SCIENCE!!

They havent been scientifically studied at all, the US Government dosent allow that experimentation......it would completly expose them for theyre lies.....i have no cancers, no ill health, no tumors, no memory loss (except maybe when im REALLY Baked)......I havent migrated over to cocaine ,extasy, and heroin.....Nor do i do ANY hard drugs...........

I only occaionally drink and then only mageritas!!! I have held a succesful Job, in a high tech, hi paced environment for years.Ive raised a family, all of the above while smoking pot!! and to this day not one ill effect, no addictions ,and no migration to hard drugs..

i am active in political reform for marijuana legalization. i have studied the Dutch model, as well as having travelled to Amsterdam more than a dozen times...



I am active in the medicinal Mj movement as well, and am well connected to some heavy players in all of these areas. As i say i have LIVED the life, MY WHOLE life ....NOTHING you can produce, will alleviate the FACTS that concern the issues....comparing the effects of defoliants inhaled 30 yrs ago to smoking pot is CRAZY speak!!

frankly its you who is wrong,and you cant see the forest through the trees.

 

[9sublime]

i have no cancers, no ill health, no tumors, no memory loss (except maybe when im REALLY Baked)......I havent migrated over to cocaine ,extasy, and heroin.....Nor do i do ANY hard drugs...........

I only occaionally drink and then only mageritas!!! I have held a succesful Job, in a high tech, hi paced environment for years.Ive raised a family, all of the above while smoking pot!! and to this day not one ill effect, no addictions ,and no migration to hard drugs..

"I never raped anybody, never killed anybody, laughed my ASS off and went about my day!"
- some famous comedian whos name I can't find on him doing drugs.

The only real media attention drugs get is the bad stuff because it makes good news.

An estimated 500,000 people take ecstasy in the UK every weekend, and only6 have died in 10 years from ecstasy posining in the last 10 years, and another 81 from ectasy related death (lethal cocktails, dehydration, too much fluid to the brain). That means that 91 people have died from ecstasy in 10 years out of the

500,000 a week x 4 weeks x 12 months x 10 years = 240,000,000 times people have taken ecstasy, only 91 have died in the UK. I'm sure more people have died from over the counter methadone than that, so why isn't it legal so people know whats it cut with?

Ecstasy and coke are the most commonly used drugs in which people can have no idea what is in it, making it potentially unsafe to take it. If pills were made by the government, people would know the strength of them and that they were pure resulting in less deaths.

 

[palerider]

I am active in the medicinal Mj movement as well, and am well connected to some heavy players in all of these areas. As i say i have LIVED the life, MY WHOLE life ....NOTHING you can produce, will alleviate the FACTS that concern the issues....comparing the effects of defoliants inhaled 30 yrs ago to smoking pot is CRAZY speak!!

frankly its you who is wrong,and you cant see the forest through the trees.

You are an anecdote Rokerijdude, nothing more.

And I wasn't comparing the effects of defoliants to pot use. I was pointing out that I didn't have cancer either, until I did. Simple as that. Right up till the time I was diagnosed, I could point at the studies that said that agent orange could cause cancer and dismiss them because I didn't have cancer...yet.

At this point, the best you can do is say that pot hasn't given you cancer...yet. The body of science is growing all the time and to suggest that because we can't experiment on people, we will never know is clear evidence that you don't know much about modern research techniques. We know all sorts of things can cause cancer without doing human experiments.

And jack is a meaningless side issue here. He is a know nothing with a big mouth. He will never pay his bet exactly because he is a no nothing with a big mouth.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

well at this point based on your theory......I could have also developed cancer from simply breathing in our polluted air.
I find the comparison acceptable as the air we breathe is Hella polluted and im sure that given time enough we will also be able to prove that Breathing causes cancer


Or drinking filtered water or eating organically grown spinach.
I mean where shall we stop? I possibly could have developed cancer from eating too much Cauliflower,we just dont know as of yet because the studies have been done yet to support this.

the air we breathe sitting in traffic stopped in a traffic jam or at a light in a crowded city are certainly more caustic and possibly cancer causing......the actuality is there is SUBSTANTIAL proof that car exhaust can and does cause cancer



based on the current argument then we should outlaw automoblies...as well as cauliflower and hell maybe we should even restrict the use of filtered water to those over 18 yrs of age?


yes there are many many things that COULD possibly be causing cancer maybe we should identify them all villanize them lie about the results and the Prohibit them?


there havent been ANY United States Government supported research cases with marijuana whether animal or man the Feds wont allow it to happen any research they are using to support theyre theory is second hand info from other source countries

Jack is EXTREMLY Knowledgable and very Intelligent your off handed assesments of a man whom youve never spent time with is useless drivel...it is simply more of YOUR OPINION while your welcomed to it so am i allowed my own opinion and before i touch on it ill say this one should never cast stones when one does not know where they are being cast....


quite simply Jack Herer Is VERY WELL KNOWN and widely regarded as the AUTHORITY on the Prohibition of Hemp and Marijauana he is an activist hes well spoken well read and has written other things besides the emporer wears no clothes I have met him and spent time with him


I have studied his writings and philosophy of the prohibition Of Mj and Hemp I have Lived the life all my life and frankly sir its YOU who is the "Know" Nothing

see how its spelled? Know Nothing Big Mouth at this point appears to be YOU ....you have dismally failed in your attempt at overbearing this conversation quite simply because you really dont know what your talking about and your in way over your head thats why you have resorted to personally attacking my friend Jack

you have shown your true colors Mr Know Nothing

 

[Rokerijdude11]

"I never raped anybody, never killed anybody, laughed my ASS off and went about my day!"
- some famous comedian whos name I can't find on him doing drugs.

The only real media attention drugs get is the bad stuff because it makes good news.

An estimated 500,000 people take ecstasy in the UK every weekend, and only6 have died in 10 years from ecstasy posining in the last 10 years, and another 81 from ectasy related death (lethal cocktails, dehydration, too much fluid to the brain). That means that 91 people have died from ecstasy in 10 years out of the

500,000 a week x 4 weeks x 12 months x 10 years = 240,000,000 times people have taken ecstasy, only 91 have died in the UK. I'm sure more people have died from over the counter methadone than that, so why isn't it legal so people know whats it cut with?

Ecstasy and coke are the most commonly used drugs in which people can have no idea what is in it, making it potentially unsafe to take it. If pills were made by the government, people would know the strength of them and that they were pure resulting in less deaths.

Xtacy and cocaine .............................

Have Absolutly NOTHING to do with Marijuana?
whats your point?

 

[palerider]

Jack is EXTREMLY Knowledgable and very Intelligent your off handed assesments of a man whom youve never spent time with is useless drivel...it is simply more of YOUR OPINION while your welcomed to it so am i allowed my own opinion and before i touch on it ill say this one should never cast stones when one does not know where they are being cast....

Jack is an uneducated activist who doesn't even acknowledge that a growing body of research is indicating very strongly that he is wrong.

quite simply Jack Herer Is VERY WELL KNOWN and widely regarded as the AUTHORITY on the Prohibition of Hemp and Marijauana he is an activist hes well spoken well read and has written other things besides the emporer wears no clothes I have met him and spent time with him

Jack's "professional" opinion on the dangers of pot are about as valid as barbara streisand's "professional" opinion on global warming.

I have studied his writings and philosophy of the prohibition Of Mj and Hemp I have Lived the life all my life and frankly sir its YOU who is the "Know" Nothing

A philosophy that doesn't acknowledge a growing body of valid scientific research that is challenging everything he says is hardly a valid philosophy. Unless you consider flat earthers valid.

 

[9sublime]

Xtacy and cocaine .............................

Have Absolutly NOTHING to do with Marijuana?
whats your point?

Just saying that the media highlight the dangers of drugs when more people probably die from perscription drugs than ecstasy. Expanding the debait, if you will.

 

[Rokerijdude11]

Jack is an uneducated activist who doesn't even acknowledge that a growing body of research is indicating very strongly that he is wrong.

Oh really? when was the last time you talked to Jack? I mean you seem to know so so much about him? Un-Educated!!!..hardly your lack of any type of actual responses, is a testament to your shortcomings when it comes to this subject....You may be well versed, and educated in some areas. Ill give you that. But this is NOT one of those areas!! .As The readers can clearly see, you have simply been reduced to, Attacking a man whom you dont even know..............He is wrong you say?.........on which one of the hundreds of points, and information that are contained within the book?


Let me directly ask you...........HAVE YOU READ THE BOOK THE EMPORER WEARS NO CLOTHES?

Not parts of it,..... not paragraphs of it,....... not the introduction .....Have you read the book? The answer is completly obvious, by your rambling nonsensical answers.......the Only Uneducated man in this thread at this point appears to be YOU....Im sorry but thats how its shaping up with each post


Jack's "professional" opinion on the dangers of pot are about as valid as barbara streisand's "professional" opinion on global warming.

No actually Jacks opinions are based On Real life experience as well as US government Information and documentation as well as ,Several sanctioned actual REAL TIME studies done in other countries... Jacks information concerning the lies that catapaulted the prohibition of Mj and Hemp is Non debatable it is documented and well proven.....his work regarding the issue of hemp saving the world is un-parralelled


its only the sheep who buy into the rhetorics who dont see the obviousness of what has been done in this country.we havent even scratched the surface of this. because you arent educated enough to get past the jack dosent know **** part of the program..when you actually THINK you have a grasp on this and want to actually TRY and debate me on the "dangers" of marijuana you let me know


as of this time you are woefully Un-educated and therefore Un-able to debate.I completly understand. its ok not to know everything gimme a shout when you THINK you may be ready ok?


A philosophy that doesn't acknowledge a growing body of valid scientific research that is challenging everything he says is hardly a valid philosophy. Unless you consider flat earthers valid.

again your Ignorance of the realities of what Jack has writtent about surfaces like a slug in a heavy rain storm. So Now ill ask you again? have you spoken to Jack recently? Im not so sure this last statement of yours holds any truth at all? and as we can clearly see you are Un-able to take Jacks Challenge......its a shame actually I really enjoy it when you flat earthers try and assert yourselves but then shrink from direct challenge...Instead you have decided to argue with "some guy" on a website.....it goes a long way to showing us how un-educated you really are on this particular subject



As i say i find you to be fairly well educated on many subjects and enjoy most of what you write But on this particular subject your just embarrassing yourself.....
whenever you want to get past the Jack dosent know **** stage and you want to really delve into the meat of this let me know Id suggest you readt the book beforehand though

its the only way you are going to learn anything of truth

come back later wwhen you can actually attempt a debate at this point all you are doing is trying to assert yourself and insulting someone whom you dont even know and who cant re-but your Insultuos manners....it goes way way beyond smoking some pot to catch a buzz saprky

soo soo much deeper wake up and take a good look sparky

 

[Rokerijdude11]

Just saying that the media highlight the dangers of drugs when more people probably die from perscription drugs than ecstasy. Expanding the debait, if you will.

sorry i follow your angle now thanks for clarification

 

[9sublime]

No worries. Never actually taken ecstasy myself though. Are you still a regular user of cannabis roker?

 

[Rokerijdude11]

ive smoked pot every day basically since sometime in summer 1976 there were some exceptions of course there was a few years i set it aside as i was a jet engine mechanic and Aircrewman on a Naval S.A. R. squadron based in guam

Yes i smoke daily as i say i have no other vices im not a beer drinker dont do any other drugs i havent tried extacy either or heroin or ghb i did try cocaine a few times in the early 80s not my gig..i also experimented with some LSD in the late seventies just before my Naval enlistment

since returning from overseas i havent done any drugs other than getting high.........well i ate some mushrooms in Amsterdam back in 2000 just to see what that was all about

there are appropriate times to get high and others to be straight i have been smoking long enough to differentiate between the two....im not out riding or driving while getting stoned although there have been times i have had to drive while stoned in my 30+ years of smoking


i do not make it a habit..I dont get high before or during work.generally after 4;20 in the afternoon when business has been completed for the day...dont get high in front of my kids or with them.

so far my open attitude with my kids has worked just fine my 25 yr old does not get high.she tried it for a while and then stopped my 18 year old has gone through 3 stages now and currently is on a no smoke regimen

i dont preach to them and they not to me I dont smoke tobacco although i did for some almost 30 years i have been nicotine free for almost 3 yrs now so yes in the eveining while most folks are having a beer or a glass of wine and relaxing i am smoking a bowl and relaxing


there was a time when it was everything to me and I probably should have had more restraint but overall it hasnt really hampered my ability to live life although recently the laws and insurance companies have gotten ferverent and are making it almost impossible for one to pull off what i have all my life


drug testing is prevalent in all walks of life even if you own your own business the insurance comapny will still nail you even the Unions relented and let insurance companies
dicttate how company policy is written


It is no longer good enough that you only do these things on your "OFF" time .they dont care.they want you towing the line regardless its a fabulous marriage of corporations/Government/Insurance they control what and how we do everything

In todays world its Much more difficult to do what i have done
and Quite frankly NOT ALL PEOPLE are able to Use marijuana responsibly and for that reason its Not for everybody.It works for me it quite possibly will not for you
or others you know it is truly an individual choice and these days not one to be taken lightly


I do not suggest that it is ok for children to use it,or pregnat women ,or those with complications of the respiratory system unless they are using medicinally and compensating for such

there are 3 distinct areas that all relate when it comes to marijuana Recreational,Medicinal, and then the hemp cousin plant and its Industrial uses.....sorry for such a long response.....this is a subject that i am VERY VERY well educated in and i tend to ramble on my soapbox