The Flat tax

[steveox]

People would just go outside of the city to shop.

Would you drive all the way to Georgia to grocery shopping to advoid paying Tennessee food taxes if you live in Tennessee?

http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9658937

 

[BigRob]

Would you drive all the way to Georgia to grocery shopping to advoid paying Tennessee food taxes if you live in Tennessee?

http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9658937

Last I checked Beverly Hills was not a state, but if I lived on the border.. yes I would.

 

[Apathy]

1)The point remains that our government derives its authority form the consent of the governed. In my opinion, that means we are basically entering into a social contract with the government that we create, and part of that contract is paying taxes in some manner.

2)How high those rates may be etc, are open to debate, but if we consent to be governed by our government, which I would argue we all basically do, part of that means we have to pay taxes.

1)The will of the majority is not consent.

2)So its the degree of the theft you are worried about not the theft itself? Thats like saying "It's ok to kill people as long as the rates aren't too high."

 

[BigRob]

1)The will of the majority is not consent.

You personally give your tacit consent to be governed by not living in a state of rebellion.

2)So its the degree of the theft you are worried about not the theft itself? Thats like saying "It's ok to kill people as long as the rates aren't too high."

I don't view it as theft. I view it as living up to a contractual obligation...that is not to say we can't debate the fine print (ie taxation levels), but taxes in general are not theft in my opinion.

 

[nobull]

Whos against the flat tax? I am!!! I dont think they should add a national Sales tax unless they abolish state sales taxes. But i do favor corperate taxes. That means the top corperate excutive people pay extra taxes on their income. Its like taxing the rich. Im also in favor of Entertainers tax. That means Hollywood celebrites,TV News people and pro sports athletes who are making over $1,000,000 in salaries. They should pay an extra 20% on their income. That includes Pro Wrestlers who make over $1,000,000 in salaries

The bottom line of this topic is, do you believe that the tax code should be used to encourage/discourage certain behavior? And, should people be taxed based on their ability to pay, or on their total income (even if it's very very small)? Without some reasonable discussion as to where we are, as a nation, on the answers to these questions, the tax system will always be a mess.

doug

 

[nobull]

The super-high corporate taxes in this country harm everyone - eg, it's just one of the many job-killers liberals have invented.

Rick I agree...I'm all for the flat tax! If your goal is "social justice," then everyone should pay the same percentage.

In addition, I'm all for eliminating ALL corporate income taxes. Corporations can't "pay" taxes. Any taxes collected from corporations are passed along as higher prices, lower wages, and/or lower returns to investors. As such, corporate income taxes are hidden taxes.

Charge corporations fees for direct services they get from the government.

regards
doug

 

[nobull]

The whole discussion is stupid. Rich people hold and manage their assets inside personal companies which pay tax based on business rules instead of personal rules. That means they're taxed after costs like "company" purchases of goods and stocks. And when they finally transfer ownership of the personal company, which happens rarely, they pay a simple capital gains, if that.

The only difference between a flat tax and the tax system we have today is that the poor and middle class get equally screwed instead of just socking it to the middle class.

regards
doug

a flat tax with a cosumption tax just might work..

 

[Little-Acorn]

We need a modern Day ROBIN HOOD!! Rob the rich and give it to the Poor..

Nice try, but off the mark.

Have you read the actual Robin Hood legends? Guess who he "robbed" from?

A: Government treasury agents and tax collectors! And he gave the money back to the people who had earned it in the first place: Farmers, cobblers, teamsters, etc.

Robin Hood was a conservative.

 

[Dr.Who]

Whos against the flat tax? I am!!! I dont think they should add a national Sales tax unless they abolish state sales taxes. But i do favor corperate taxes. That means the top corperate excutive people pay extra taxes on their income. Its like taxing the rich. Im also in favor of Entertainers tax. That means Hollywood celebrites,TV News people and pro sports athletes who are making over $1,000,000 in salaries. They should pay an extra 20% on their income. That includes Pro Wrestlers who make over $1,000,000 in salaries

So you are in favor of a flat tax

as long as they abolish state taxes.

 

[Dr.Who]

Theft ? Not really. If you don't care for it you can leave. If you disagree with what the government spends money on you have a voice in that too. Now imminant domain is another matter.

Fair tax m ight be fair if it addressed one's share equally. The offerings I've seen do not. The Fair Tax which is based on consumption does better at that but misses on the fair part by continuing the welfare aspects of the current model.

I dislike much about the tax system but since I have not yet decided to abandon my home and family to go to another country which might would also tax me I have given consent?

No, all countries tax so failure to leave one country does not imply consent.

Just like in rape consent is based on whether or not I want to be violated not on whether I am violated because it is better than being beaten.

I do not want the taxes I am forced to pay so my consent is not given. I also don't want to have to flee simply because that would be worse than the taxes. Taxes are a lesser evil but they are still evil.

By the way, I got my first job at 13 and started paying taxes when I was 16. I was not legally able to leave the country nor vote but I still had to pay the taxes.

 

[Dr.Who]

Theft ? Not really. If you don't care for it you can leave. If you disagree with what the government spends money on you have a voice in that too. Now imminant domain is another matter.
.

Why would imminent domain be different? If you don't want the gov to come and take your property all you have to do is leave before they do it.

We could apply the "just leave" argument to any law at all just or unjust. "If you don't like that the local tyrant kidnapped you family and tortured them then you must have given consent because you failed to leave."

No! Consent is based solely on whether or not you agree. Submitting to the better option from a list of bad options is not the same as consent.

 

[Dr.Who]

My Idea of Fair Tax.

1.No sales taxes
2.No Gas Tax
3.No Taxes on coummuncations

if you make under $30,000 a year salary you pay 0%
if you make over $30,000 a year salary you pay 20%
if you make over $60,000 a year salary you pay 30%
if you make over $120,000 a year salary you pay 35%
if you make over $300,000 a year salary you pay 45%
if you make over $1,000,000 a year salary you pay 55%

Now thats fair

That is the opposite of equal protection under the law.

The wealthy person has already paid more than the person with less income because income tax is based on a percentage, so 15% of a larger amount is already more than 15% of a smaller amount. To raise the percent that one person pays is unfair.

 

[Dr.Who]

From the viewpoint of taxes being a social contract, the money is no more stolen than someone "steals" from another person by expecting them to live up to their side of a contract.




I do have the option to pay taxes. I can renounce my citizenship and leave, and then I am no longer party to the social contract, and pay no taxes.

I don't agree that the social contract theory is correct. But the anti-federalist argued that the reason for powerful state governments and a weak federal government was specifically so that it would be easier to leave one state in favor of another.

The harder it is to leave the less fair the tax becomes. As the fed grows stronger taxes become less fair. And if we ever have a one world government then by your standards the social contract ceases to be a contract.

 

[Dr.Who]

You personally give your tacit consent to be governed by not living in a state of rebellion.



I don't view it as theft. I view it as living up to a contractual obligation...that is not to say we can't debate the fine print (ie taxation levels), but taxes in general are not theft in my opinion.

But I am living in a state of rebellion. I have stated that I don't want to pay some of these taxes and I have argued that the gov is unjust. Granted it is a very very small rebellion but that means that I no longer have to follow the tax law. Right?

 

[Apathy]

You personally give your tacit consent to be governed by not living in a state of rebellion.

Your logic would have all rapists go free. "They implied consent by being present at the scene of the rape." You logic is fvcked and is based on the false assumptions that I do not rebel.

I don't view it as theft. I view it as living up to a contractual obligation...that is not to say we can't debate the fine print (ie taxation levels), but taxes in general are not theft in my opinion.

I don't view the killing of another human being in cold blood as murder. But does that change what it is? You can call a spade a club but it is still a spade.